Two stat block things that bug me

[Hypersmurf]

When I look at monster classes it seems to me that all monsters are born at 1 HD but become valuable as monsters at a later HD and the MM shows a typical adult.

Monster classes aren't core.

In Core rules, there's no such thing as an ECL 1 gnoll. A gnoll is not a possible character until ECL 3 - 2HD, +1 LA.

In Core rules, there's no such thing as an ECL 1 porpoise.

Therefore in Core rules, there's nothing wrong with the porpoise - which has a BAB of +1 and one feat due to its two animal HD - having the Weapon Finesse feat.

If you introduced a porpoise monster class, that got one hit die and one feat at first level, and the second hit die at second level, that porpoise would not be eligible for Weapon Finesse. But the standard MM porpoise is.

The porpoise gains one feat because it has two animal hit dice... not one feat because it once upon a time had one animal hit die, and now it has two.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Wait.... We're arguing whether porpoises should have Weapon Finesse?

Hmm...yeah, pretty much. :\

 

[Man-thing]

So you are saying a MM, 2HD porpoise has 1 feat and it gets it at 2 HD because it was created that way.

So I can create a 33HD outsider with 12 epic feats because I created it at 33 HD and its allowed to have epic feats once its past 20 HD so I'll just choose 12 epic feats then.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So I can create a 33HD outsider with 12 epic feats because I created it at 33 HD and its allowed to have epic feats once its past 20 HD so I'll just choose 12 epic feats then.

Pretty much.

Why does this bother you so much?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Where did you get the idea that any monster greater than 20HD is epic-level?

 

[Daermon]

Hmm...yeah, pretty much. :\

Oh.

Well.....

OK.

Have fun.:\

 

[Man-thing]

Why does this bother you so much?

I guess for a designing standpoint I'm looking at the rules to understand how things are done and there is a lot of inconsistencies and issues even after you look at official errata. The changes to the Monster Manual (v3.5) kind of bugged me that everything was harmonized to be parallel with character advancement and yet as people are indicating that it's not necessarily true.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The changes to the Monster Manual (v3.5) kind of bugged me that everything was harmonized to be parallel with character advancement and yet as people are indicating that it's not necessarily true.

Well, it's parallel with character advancement as things are advancing. If you advance a 2HD porpoise into a 4HD porpoise, it gains +2 BAB, 2 + Int skill points (2), a feat, and an ability point.

It's not necessarily parallel during creation - which is done apurpose, as near as I can tell.

 

[Man-thing]

It's not necessarily parallel during creation - which is done apurpose, as near as I can tell.

Which is not necessarily clear. When I look at other monster's higher level than 2HD like an Areana they "seem" to spread their feats out over HD as though they picked on up at 1 HD, then 3 HD, and so on. (So many powerful monsters still have lower prerequisite feats instead of all at the upper end of the requirements)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

(So many powerful monsters still have lower prerequisite feats instead of all at the upper end of the requirements)

Because you need to meet feat prereqs before you can take them, regardless of when you take them (unless they are specifically called out as bonus feats). Accordingly, they take Dodge so they can take Mobility.