D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Voadam]

My understanding is that the reason why Japanese interpretations of orcs have pig heads is because Japanese game designers were inspired by the orc illustration in the AD&D Monstrous Manual.

More likely the 1e Monster Manual orcs:

"Description: Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration — brown or brownish green with a bluish sheen — highlights their pinkish snouts and ears."

 

[Maxperson]

More likely the 1e Monster Manual orcs:

View attachment 124059

"Description: Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration — brown or brownish green with a bluish sheen — highlights their pinkish snouts and ears."

This is the 5e description, which the 5e picture does not match for whatever reason.

"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks."

Nothing in the 5e pictures says, "piggish faces" to me. Someone bungled it over at WotC. I just ignore the pictures and describe the pig men of yore.

 

[Mercurius]

I've never loved the pig-men of yore, which I think was a Gygaxism in trying to differentiate from Tolkien (ala short elves).

 

[Micah Sweet]

My understanding is that the reason why Japanese interpretations of orcs have pig heads is because Japanese game designers were inspired by the orc illustration in the AD&D Monstrous Manual.

View attachment 124047

BTW, here's an illustration and mini for the orc (and other D&D monsters) from the officially-licensed Classic Creatures Box Set from WizKids released in 2017:

View attachment 124048

The 1st edition Monster Manual has pig-headed orcs (and dog-headed kobolds). That's probably where the inspiration comes from.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I've never loved the pig-men of yore, which I think was a Gygaxism in trying to differentiate from Tolkien (ala short elves).

Yeah. My first edition in D&D was 5e, and so I have no nostalgia for the pig orcs.

 

[Mercurius]

Yeah. My first edition in D&D was 5e, and so I have no nostalgia for the pig orcs.

Mine was AD&D 1E, but I still have no nostalgia for pig orcs.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

Mine was AD&D 1E, but I still have no nostalgia for pig orcs.

As someone who played multiple JRPGs while growing up that featured pig orcs I'm personally very fond of them.

For the first homebrew adventure I ever ran (in 3.5) I used an orc bad guy but drew an illustration of him as a pig orc whose girth made his armor unable to cover him effectively around the middle.

Once 6E rolls around I demand that orcs are included in the Player's Handbook as chubby pigfolk who worship Moccus, Celtic boar god of the hunt and the feast. They've become pig people again because they decided Gruumsh was a prick and turned to Moccus, who was offering a much more chill way of life.

 

[Lychee of the Exch.]

Regarding the original inquiry,

1) No.
D&D should evolve organically, and players don't need to concern themselves with its heritage. Either D&D will stand the test of time, or it will not. If it crumbles, something else could take its place --> OSR.
Regarding inclusivity, D&D was inclusive in 1974, and it became less inclusive recently, with WotC's heavy accent on social justice.

2) Irrelevant because 1, i.e I reject the framing of the discussion to be had.

3) I personnaly am not inclined to make any concessions to the ideals of social justice as applied to RPGs, and more specifically to D&D, in its current incarnation.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

1) No.
D&D should evolve organically, and players don't need to concern themselves with its heritage. Either D&D will stand the test of time, or it will not. If it crumbles, something else could take its place --> OSR.

D&D should evolve, but based on what people want the change to be.

Regarding inclusivity, D&D was inclusive in 1974, and it became less inclusive recently, with WotC's heavy accent on social justice.

And this is exactly where you lost me.

2) Irrelevant because 1, i.e I reject the framing of the discussion to be had.

Okay, please explain why, instead of just throwing this blanket statement out there.

3) I personnaly am not inclined to make any concessions to the ideals of social justice as applied to RPGs, and more specifically to D&D, in its current incarnation.

It's not about social justice, it's about not offending people.

 

[Remathilis]

I think I can stomach making orcs another PC race and less violent and savage...


... But you better leave kobolds as sadistic baby-eaters. All Hail King Torg!