D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[TheSword]

It’s times like these I’m really glad of ENWorld and it’s posters... all of them.

Believe me this thread is nothing like the bile that’s being spewed on Bell of Lost Souls. They have just announced minor adjustments to curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation reprints. You know removing depictions of vistani as drunkards and uncivilized and Chultans as savage and exotic... that’s all. Stuff that we all pretty much accepted on page 1 of most of these threads.

Judging by the reactions you would think that Wizards of the Coast had broken into their homes, ripped the books out of their hands and torn the pages out in front of them.

I don’t agree with some of the stuff that’s been said, and sometimes topics like this can get passionate but fundamentally people do care about other people’s feelings. Makes me feel lucky to be in this community.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Asking for a clear option for things to be done respectfully, as in what WotC is talking about now, might be "let different groups of 'peoples' have the chance to be good too, and don't glibly use tropes racists have". That feels like it would be akin to those who are religious asking "can we have an option for a monotheistic setting and don't glibly use anti-religious tropes in game".

That feels very different than wanting everything that goes against their religious sensitivities gone. The DMG already discusses having a monotheistic world and a low magic world. Wanting all of them to be that way, with no spells or demons or angels, seems very different.

Yeah, probably.

I don't know much about the Satanic Panic but forcing people out of the game and scape-goating them and causing hysteria seemed like bad way to go about it. It would have been better to create a setting that would be more palatable for them. But hand-waiving people's concerns as stupid is also a bad way to go about things.

You... just seem really unread on the subject - surely the emphasis on things like baptism, conversion and acceptance cover a lot of grounds?

I'm not sure who you're talking about. Me? I know there's quite a few PHD theologians on this site and I don't have those kinds of qualifications.

I mean, someone who is born in India into Hinduism as an untouchable is probably going to live their life as an untouchable. I don't think converting would help them, even if they could.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

You can't assume someone's motives and then hand-waive their concerns away.

You can't compare anime to someone's religious beliefs and someone's faith is as valid and as important as someone's race. I'm not sure this discussion is going anywhere good. Is this even on-topic? We are talking about heritage and inclusion.

I'm not sure religion is taken with the same amount of levity as race. But it should be.

Despite this, I think things like angels and devils can easily be represented in the game in a non-offensive way. That said, some people may choose to not put those elements in their games.

How did this turn into a group of people defending the Satanic Panic? How did it turn into people saying that racial inclusion is less important than religious inclusion? Doesn't everyone agree the motive of the Satanic Panic was to destroy D&D? Isn't that an objective fact?

I can compare disliking anime to disliking the inclusion of demons and devils in a roleplaying game. It was an analogy, don't dismiss the premise instead of actually coming up with a rebuttal.

You can choose your religion, you can't choose your race. It's worse to offend someone based on who they are than it is to cause people who believe in something getting offended based on something they don't understand.

The people causing the Satanic Panic don't agree with you. Angels and demons being in the game somehow warranted their demand of the game's dissolution to them.

 

[Catulle]

It’s times like these I’m really glad of ENWorld and it’s posters... all of them.

Believe me this thread is nothing like the bile that’s being spewed on Bell of Lost Souls. They have just announced minor adjustments to curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation reprints. You know removing depictions of vistani as drunkards and uncivilized and Chultans as savage and exotic... that’s all. Stuff that we all pretty much accepted on page 1 of most of these threads.

Judging by the reactions you would think that Wizards of the Coast had broken into their homes, ripped the books out of their hands and torn the pages out in front of them.

I don’t agree with some of the stuff that’s been said, and sometimes topics like this can get passionate but fundamentally people do care about other people’s feelings. Makes me feel lucky to be in this community.

BoLS is fundamentally underpinned by the 40k fandom, which has an unfortunate (systemic) history of trending towards the fash as they continually refuse to see the consequences of the universe (and to be fair, a lot of the presentation has been... lacking of late). Add that to a click-accumulator approach to their site, and yeah, those palavers are good for business; they won't close it down.

 

[Catulle]

I'm not sure who you're talking about. Me? I know there's quite a few PHD theologists on this site and I don't have those kinds of qualifications.

I mean, someone who is born in India into Hinduism as an untouchable is probably going to live their life as an untouchable. I don't think converting would help them, even if they could.

You were the poster that drew a direct association (in post#421) between faith and race.

ETA - that said, alt-tabbing out of the culture that oppresses you is, well, the literal definition of the civil rights movement

 

[FrogReaver]

Not you at all, I was into the stream-of-conscious and developing a thread in response to Frog Reaver; nothing you've written has crossed my mind in that respect!

ETA - that said, alt-tabbing out of the culture that oppresses you is, well, the literal definition of the civil rights movement

we can continue in private as this forum isn’t the place for religious discussion.

 

[Catulle]

we can continue in private as this forum isn’t the place for religious discussion.

Then why did you engage with the subject in the first place?

 

[FrogReaver]

Then why did you raise it in the first place?

I didn’t. You did.

 

[Catulle]

I didn’t. You did.

I think Max may have... I've course corrected.

ETA: No, it was Taran

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I think Max may have... I've course corrected.

ETA: No, it was Taran

I was commenting on a comment about Satanic Panic. But, yeah, this isn't the right place for this discussion which was what that original post was about, and you probably don't want me involved in it anyways. Alt tabbing out of your culture...that's interesting.