D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Cadence]

I just want to play D&D...

OD&D, 1e, Mentzer, B/X, BECM, 2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, and/or 5e?

 

[Curmudjinn]

OD&D, 1e, Mentzer, B/X, BECM, 2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, and/or 5e?

Each/any where I can play without all of this in my game, lol.

 

[Lanefan]

Yeah, if you’re presenting slavery as good and justified, I’m thinking you’ve got a tough row to hoe.

You can have slave owning pc’s. Sure. Just don’t pretend that they are morally justified. They are evil.

As defined by 21st-century morals, yes. As defined by the setting those PCs are in their relative evil-ness or lack thereof depends on the underlying ethics, morals and premises of that setting; to which 21st-century morals might not apply at all.

Would you actually classify Roman society as good?

If I was a slave-owning Roman I most likely would.

From the viewpoint of the present day Roman society presents a mixed bag, trending evil. My point is that the viewpoint of the present day does not hold when viewed from within the fiction being presented; and that there's nothing wrong with setting an RPG in Empirical Rome with Romans as the "good guys" provided it's made clear that what's being presented is fiction and is not intended to reflect real-world morality.

 

[Hussar]

See, I was just told that I’m laser beam focusing on orcs and drow. But here is this sidebar about Rome.

Has tsr or WotC ever published a dnd Rome? As far as I know, I’m fifty years of publishing gaming material for DnD, they never have.

Maybe one of those 2e historical supplements?

But here we are AGAIN, discussing something that’s never happened, where there is no indication that it’s going to happen. All so we can avoid talking about stuff that DID happen and continues to happen.

And around and around we go.

 

[Alzrius]

OD&D, 1e, Mentzer, B/X, BECM, 2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, and/or 5e?

Well clearly you're not a real fan, since you omitted 4E Essentials and the D&D Next playtest rules.

EDIT: And it's BECMI, you poseur.

 

[Mercurius]

With respect... go find us a fantasy novel that leaves the morals and ethics of the time it was written completely behind. Find an example already written that we are apt to know to display what you expect should happen, so we can discuss it in more than theoretical terms.

Again, I have never used such language (e.g. "completely behind"). I see no reason to discuss this idea, because it is not what I'm saying.

 

[Mercurius]

@Chaosmancer , could you clarify something for me? Is your main issue with the duergar a world-building issue? What you perceive as bad world-building that disturbs your suspension of belief? Or is it WotC's treatment of the duergar that you find "sickening?" That WotC is "victim-blaming" by essentially focusing on the evilness of duergar, despite the wrong done to them? Or some combination?

One thing that comes to mind is that just because a society tends towards a certain alignment doesn't mean that all individuals are of that alignment. Dwarves tend to be oriented toward good and law, but some are likely LN or LE, a bunch shades N, and even a few "hippy dwarves" being CG.

Another thing could be that there's likely a difference between canonical historical accounts perpetuated by the rulership, and what actually happened. Perhaps dwarven leadership doesn't want people to know the whole truth.

I also rather like the idea that this is a dark secret within dwarven society, a shameful episode with long-term repurcussions.

 

[Curmudjinn]

See, I was just told that I’m laser beam focusing on orcs and drow. But here is this sidebar about Rome.

Has tsr or WotC ever published a dnd Rome? As far as I know, I’m fifty years of publishing gaming material for DnD, they never have.

Maybe one of those 2e historical supplements?

But here we are AGAIN, discussing something that’s never happened, where there is no indication that it’s going to happen. All so we can avoid talking about stuff that DID happen and continues to happen.

And around and around we go.

Ad&d 2e, Glory of Rome.

 

[Voadam]

Ad&d 2e, Glory of Rome.

You can see it here

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I just want to play D&D...

And you are free to do that. Others want to play it, too, but in a different way. They don't want to be punished for playing another race.