Two Weapon Fighters

[Muther Hubbard]

Hi, I'm not very familiar with D&D rules so I'm not sure if I'm making a mistake. Situation is -

I'm starting a game and want to play a ranger - but someone in the game's already got one and I've been 'encorouged' to play a fighter (cos there's none in the party). Problem is I have a definite idea of the kind of character I want to play - a scout/guerilla/stealthy tracker who has a quaterstaff, or a couple of machetes or axes. Prefers the company of wild things, man of few words etc...
So my compromise (we start at Level 2) is to start with a level of Ranger and then build fighter on from that point on. I'll continue to wear light armor and become a bit of a killer with the above mentioned weapons.

I know this is a mistake from a power-gaming perspective. As fighter I should use decent armour and a huge sword. But I have a definite character ideal that i want to play and the heavily armoured fighter (or barbarian) isn't it.
(the Wolf Totem Warrior from Aracana unearthed would fit the bill a lot better but I doubt I'll be allowed this).

I'm not strong on the making the rule system work to my advantage. Is there a danger that this hybrid will end up neither one thing or the other, or does he have some possibilities? Any suggestions on how to constrtuct him from a rules point of view?

thanks a lot

 

[Magic Slim]

Are you using 3.0 or 3.5?

If 3.5, it doesn't do you much to take a level of ranger (1st favored enemy, Track, Wild empathy), so you're better off going fighter all the way. Or, if you want to remain sneaky (ie Hide, Move Silently), try going for Fighter/Rogue (you might want to take your 1st level in rogue to get the skill points) and concentrate your rogue skills on the sneaky skills.

At Rog1/Fig1, you'll have 3 feats (assuming human), +1d6 sneak attack damage, varied skills, access to all weapons, etc. Just put on a chain shirt (but make sure yuo have a good dex...) and you're set...

Slim

 

[Muther Hubbard]

Hi,
We'll be playing 3.5.
Problem is, I'm really sold on the idea of the rural, sneaky resourceful guy. Can a fighter in light armour and two machete's (or a quaterstaff) and a background in wilderness warfare (i.e., level 1 ranger) be any good in 3.5, or is he just a fool?

 

[Beelzebub]

Hi,
We'll be playing 3.5.
Problem is, I'm really sold on the idea of the rural, sneaky resourceful guy. Can a fighter in light armour and two machete's (or a quaterstaff) and a background in wilderness warfare (i.e., level 1 ranger) be any good in 3.5, or is he just a fool?

Why does sombody with a rural background HAVE to be a ranger? I've seen rural rouge/fighters fit that bill quite nicely.

 

[Darklone]

Why not going ranger2/rogue X?

You'd get the TWF at level two, know some wilderness stuff and will be the sneaky tough guy later.

Just put your highest attribute in CON though, you'll need every hitpoint you can get. Want a dwarf? Have a look at Wulf Ratbanes original storyhour for a ftr/rog.

 

[rowport]

Actually, it sounds to me like you really want to play a Ranger in the classic style, so you might want to first consider what could make your Ranger distinct from the other one already in the party, and use that class. For instance, if the other Ranger is primarily an archer, then your two-machete version will 'feel' quite different. Or, if the other Ranger has high social skills and Heal, then yours should not have those skills, and instead be super-sneaky (with Move Silently and Hide maybe boosted with the Sneaky feat). I suspect that your friends are steering you away from the Ranger class to make sure that everybody has a distinct role to play in the party- that is the right intention. So, making your Ranger different from the other one should do the trick. By the same token, if you make a Fighter/Rogue (for instance) who looks and acts like the other Ranger in the party, you will still be on each other's turf! See what I mean? The 'style' of the character is as important as the class.

That said, if you are dead-set against using the Ranger base class, then a Druid/Rogue will work pretty well with the character you have described. He would have nature skills and spells, 'sneaky' skills, and light armor.

 

[rowport]

My pardon, I re-read your message, and realized that you were really asking for rules mechanics advice following the concept of starting with Ranger and then going with Fighter from there.

In that case, I would suggest doing your first two levels in Ranger- that will give you the Two-Weapon Fighting style to get you started, which will stay useful as long as you continue to use light armor. Then, add Fighter levels. To keep your character concept, choose feats that focus on his combat mobility rather than raw power; this guy will have to be a Dexterity fighter rather than a Strength fighter, to balance his lower AC with light armor. Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack feat chain is a good fit for him, especially with his two machetes. You might also consider Weapon Finesse if his Dex is lots higher than his Str. On the skills side, you will have some problems getting his 'sneakiness' with the Fighter class, since you have fewer skill points and all the ones you want will be cross-class. You can help this by choosing some skill-feats, like Sneaky and Skill Focus (Move Silently). Later, add Cosmopolitan to help deal with the cross-class skill problem. Following this route will get a character than generally 'feels' like the one you describe, but he will certainly be more combat-focused than skill-focused than most scout-type characters. If you are willing to look at Rogue instead or in addition to Fighter, that could work very well at balancing those extremes.

I would still suggest the Ranger, though!

 

[Winternight]

Play barbarian.
You have those wild, untaimed, "man of few words" right build in. Barbarian can live medium or light armor, most of their abilittes don`t work with hvy armor.

 

[Darklone]

I suspect that your friends are steering you away from the Ranger class to make sure that everybody has a distinct role to play in the party- that is the right intention.

I never understood this D&D "spotlight for every char for 15 minutes" politics. Two players in several years complained once about not being cool enough and meant to have their shining moment when they can save the whole group... the others were happy to be a good team.

I played in several groups as the underdog (3-4 levels less than anyone else and still I got to be useful) and I always had fun.

More than once we had three rogues or three fighters or similar non generic groups and it usually worked out fine. It even might help to work more on your "character" by not simply defining it with his class and abilities.

But if you wanna do this, first have a talk with your group about it.

 

[Muther Hubbard]

Rowport, you're right - I do want to play a ranger in the classic style, but I have to develop the kick-ass aspect of his abilities (because the party needs a fighter, and because another player has already 'reserved' a sneaky ranger). I don't want to sacrifice the personality I've already envisaged for my character, but making him become increasingly weapon-handy (i.e., fighter levels) is compatible with my character-ideal.

Question is which feats? I've just looked through the (fighter relevant) feats in the 3.5 rules and its all SO complicated! I find it hard to weigh up the relative advantages of the options? I guess a lot depends on my characters abilities. There’s:

1) basic boosts to hit and damage - weapon (and greater weapon) focus and specialisation.
2) increased responsivness - alertness, combat reflexes and improved initiative

And then several chains:

3) Two weapon fighting and two weapon defence (and improved TWF).
4) Dodge - mobility - expertise - spring attack - whirlwind attack
5) Combat expertise - improved trip/disarm
**which of these two is most effective?**
6) Power attack – cleave – great cleave (not for my character)

(clearly improved critical will eventually come in handy)
Does weapon finesse work with a quarterstaff in 3.5?
Concerning 2 weapon-fighting: you get an extra attacks with the off-hand. Can the attack be used for a trip or a disarm (if you have that feat)? And when do you get extra attacks with your on-hand?