Typical Player Behavior, or Bad Roleplaying?

[DarkMaster]

Option 2 is the best way to loose your player. (One thing for sure you would loose me).

If you absolutly want to remove the item. Just talk about it out-of-character and rectify the situation, giving your arguments and letting the player give theirs.

The game is not a DM vs player game (as you demonstrated in your example the DM can always win so where would be the fun.). If you absolutly wants to remove them within the game at least give your player a chance to defend themselves and perhaps earn the items by defeating the challenges but never pit them against some powerfull out-of-nowhere NPC they can't defeat whatever they do, that can only breaks your group.

Also one thing that DM don't use enough is the cleric dependance on adhering to his God code of conduct. If you feel that the cleric isn't following it next morning he might not get his high level spell or worse none at all.

 

[lukelightning]

I'd never have let the old PC to just give all the magic items to the new PC

I'd certainly allow it...as a justification of where the new PC got all his goodies, not an add-on to what he's already got.

 

[hexgrid]

Now, since there are no alignments, I can't *force* or railroad the players into having their characters act a certain way.

uh... huh?

 

[Oryan77]

They're not yellow bellies. The idea is, they're also secretly plotting to save the ex-PC priestess. But they don't want to tell the PCs what they're planning because they're not sure the PCs are trustworthy. The PCs didn't walk up to the NPC clerics and volunteer to save the priestess, they just said "Hey, she's imprisoned, maybe you guys should do something about this."

If NPCs *tell* the party "Oh please help us save our priestess" then it's just a job; if the party spontaneously decides to save the priestess out of the goodness of their hearts then THAT'S HEROISM!!! Whoo hoo!

Basically, I want the decision to be up to the PCs -- I don't want any NPCs to lead them by the nose.

This actually benefits the new PC even more and would make your plan of using a planar ally or anyone else taking the magic items even more of a bad idea. Just because the old PC wasn't rescued doesn't mean the clerics know the party didn't even try. The clerics also didn't actually hire them to do a rescue. If these are good clerics who do infact have a secret rescue plan of their own, would they really care about the PC not doing anything? There was also no expectations when the PC got the magical gifts, so why would good clerics take the gifts away for not helping? Do the clerics actually know that the old PC gave her gear to the new PC?

From experience, introducing a new more powerful NPC (planar ally) simply to take items from a PC is going to take away from the realism of your world. I had a DM pull this same thing on me once. He gave me a magic sword that turned out to be more powerful than what he later felt I should have. One morning my character wakes up and the sword and my only other magic item (a ring) were missing. My other items were thrown all around my room. I was a rogue with great listen skills and my room was magically sealed, yet, someone ripped me off without me even rolling a single save/skill check. I let it slide, but I was determined to find out who ripped me off. A year later (real time) when I finally figured out that a fellow player did it, I roleplayed my revenge. AGAIN the DM interviened and just as I announced that I slit the PC's throat (after I had gone through the process of getting him tied up & helpless), a powerful mage appears in the room and threatens to kill me if I harm the PC. This type of stuff is just frustrating to players. I don't have a problem with a DM trying to take stuff from players, but he has to do it fairly and logically.

I'm just looking at this as if I was your player and you did this to me. I would feel like I have absolutely no control over my own characters actions just like I felt in my old DM's game.

 

[KRT]

Storyline is the most important thing. All actions can be justified by sufficient storyline. The Player may have wanted to be rid of the old PC yes, but that shouldn't matter. Roll with it. If the old PC was a member of a pacifist church then the new PC is quite correct in not attempting a violent rescue. This would not only upset the old PC but make a mockery of the gifts received. If the new PC also refuses to argue for leniency and the player really wants the old PC out of the way, work it into the storyline. Take the player aside and get their reasons. If it is the case then add in a flashback scene where the old PC extracts an oath or something from the new one not to directly intercede. This makes it interesting for the new PC if the rest of the party goes ahead with rescue plans etc, because the new PC now cannot "directly" intercede.

 

[sniffles]

One thing to consider is that your players might be hesitant to rescue the old PC because they know, out of character, that the old PC is not to be adventuring with them (because there's a new character for that player) and they might be assuming that they "aren't supposed to" rescue the former PC. From a player perspective, it's awkward to deal with an old PC once the player has chosen to play a new one.

Oi, Ali, is that you!!??

I concur with Hammerhead regarding the "takeback" issue on the former PC's magic items that now belong to the new PC. Don't punish the player for a mistake that you made.

I also don't really see where the alignment issue comes into this at all. Just because Ahura-Mazda is Supreme God of Good does not require the PC to rescue the old PC. Is the old PC's deity a friend of Ahura-Mazda? If not then Ahura-Mazda may not care what happens to the former PC. Does Ahura-Mazda's portfolio require his clerics to save prisoners and rescue the downtrodden, or does it require his clerics to obey the law? Or both? I wouldn't consider the PC's behavior an alignment infraction even if you were using alignment, unless there was a very clear description in the deity's history and portfolio demonstrating that it's wrong for one of his clerics to act in the manner this PC is acting in.

 

[Conaill]

You're right that I shouldn't have let them hand off the magic items. Although it's not game-breaking -- it's just a Circlet of Blasting, a Ring of +10 Sense Motive, and I think one or two other minor things.

Thanks to the Ring of +10 Sense Motive, the new PC notices that the soldiers guarding the old PC intend to kill him as soon as possible. Then the *intelligent* Circle of Blasting threathens to take matters into its own hands...

Overall, I think you made a serious mistake not to remove the old PC from the picture altogether. Heck - have him be killed! What better way to set up the party's hatred for your favorite BBEG? If it were me, the PCs would find out the next morning that the old PC died under torture, and through Speak with Dead gave a rough description of the PC's...

 

[Squire James]

Just cool down the treasure output a bit and steer toward items useful for the other PC's until the group is back in balance treasure-wise. As for the former PC, just let it go, let that character fade out unless the players insist otherwise. In that case, stage a spectacular death scene.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Just have alignment reverse on the old PC and later on have her go get her items back from the PC's along with whatever else she thinks is her's. Being abandoned for death by people you thought to be your companions and friends, when you throught you were protecting them should be enough for an alignment change.

 

[LostSoul]

First of all, I don't think it's too big a deal to have the extra magic items in the party. For a level or two, be stingy with the loot.

Anyway, I've already decided what's gonna happen. There's two choices.

(2) They don't try to rescue the old NPC. Off-camera, some high-level cleric rescues the old NPC. Then, a Planar Ally sent by the cleric comes & takes the old NPC's magic items back from the party (fighting them & knocking them all out if necessary, although they won't attack unless the party is a jerk about it).

I'd be wary of going with this choice. It might seem to the players like vindictive DMing - "We didn't follow on his plot-path, so now we lose our magic items." (I'm not saying that's what you're doing, or that the players will take that point of view; but they might, the danger is there.)

You have a lot of other options; here are some off the top of my head:

- Have the old PC die, and spill his guts via Speak With Dead (without alignments, how would you determine who gets a saving throw?). Can this hurt the PCs? Hopefully. Actions have consequences.

- Have the old PC do a turn-about, betray the PCs. "You had it in your power to save me - all you had to do was talk to the guard - but you turned your back on me! After everything I did for you, gave you!" etc.

- Have some NPCs save the PC, then all the other NPCs talk about what a good bunch of heroes they are.

- Strip the guy of his spells, since he turned his back on the path of Good. Or give him some kind of penalty until he repents (like a -1 penalty on each die for healing, damage spells).

Oh, and talk to the player and ask him what he was thinking.

Hope that helps some.