D&D 5E UA Warforged vs. Keith Baker's Warforged

[ccs]

[MENTION=6803664]ccs[/MENTION], [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION], [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION] and [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] - are you seing something I missed? Are you running Integrated Armor differently than I?

Or perhaps you've made the same mistake as Mr Baker, thinking the ability would be more useful than it really is? Because to me, that ability is USELESS.

The only standard character that gets any use out of it is the Rogue (and possibly a high-Dex Wizard), and then only a 45 gp savings. Everyone else gets better AC out of another solution that does not stack with this.

(by the way, if you are running it so the Warforged can wear armor on top of his intergrated armor, then you are running it as if the ability read simply "+2 AC".)

1) I'm not running it at all atm. I'm not playing a Warforged, and neither is anyone in the 5e game I DM.
The only WF I've played was the UA version right when it was new. It was ok. If I play another one I'll see if the DM will allow the KB version. If so I'll play it as written. The exact usefulness of AC.12+dex will depend upon the character I come up with at that time.
If one of the players asks to play the KB version? Then I'll run it as written.

2) I didn't base my statement of the KB version being better solely on the AC bonus. Even without any AC bonus the KB version grants more perks than the UA one does. So it "wins". Doesn't matter to me if my armor worn ends up being better than my natural AC of 12+dex. I'll be no worse off than any other character. And if I take my armor off for some reason? Then I'll be better off than I would've been as some other race or an UA warforged.....

3) You thinking an ability is useless doesn't make it a mistake.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Stuff like "servos" never seemed right to me. They aren't actually robots. They mostly made of living wood, and while components have always been a thing for them, it never struck me as all that analogous to Star Wars droid parts.

Anyway, KB version wins, IMO. More fun, subraces, all it needs is some stuff about docents and bolting on armor.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Yep. Warforged components were always explicitly magical items that actually merged with their bodies. Warforged are created complete not assembled part-by-part.

Rather than have them shrugging suits of armour on and off, I would probably suggest that over a long rest, someone proficient in a relevant set of Tools could attach a suit of armour to a Warforged, integrating it onto and into it's body.

The UA warforged effectively has an unarmoured AC of 11+Dex mod, which is pretty close to HC's version. I like the idea of the UA's benefit that works in addition to the standard armour. If you found a straight +1 to AC too powerful, you could think about perhaps reducing the Strength requirements for armour that they have integrated.

 

[ccs]

Yep. Warforged components were always explicitly magical items that actually merged with their bodies. Warforged are created complete not assembled part-by-part.

Lol. But that's exactly how the WF I played was "made". Part by part.
I know of WF from 3.5, but I don't own any Ebberron books. If they were in 4e? Then I know zero about that version as we'd already abanded that edition before they arrived.
So my 5e WF was a fighter (variant noble) EK. As he lv up, his "pit crew" of gnomish tinkerers would bolt on new gadgets allowing increased stats/spells/etc.

 

[Creamsteak]

Lol. But that's exactly how the WF I played was "made". Part by part.
I know of WF from 3.5, but I don't own any Ebberron books. If they were in 4e? Then I know zero about that version as we'd already abanded that edition before they arrived.
So my 5e WF was a fighter (variant noble) EK. As he lv up, his "pit crew" of gnomish tinkerers would bolt on new gadgets allowing increased stats/spells/etc.

I think that's a totally legitimate way to approach it. Also I have no qualms with people playing them as droids or whatever. Especially if you're porting them to any setting other than the one they originate from. To each their own.

Warforged in the original Eberron campaign setting had a bit of a mysterious origin. They actually are based on magic that predates the Cannith forges that you can encounter in Xen'drik. There's definitely some questionable stuff going on around them that I'm unaware of whether it was ever revealed or not. Building thousands of them to fight a war as slave proxies may have been a lot like growing infants into child soldiers in a lab because we understand the technology enough to do so. We call them constructs or treat them like drones, but in reality they were a lot like children indoctrinated to war and service, forged for war as it is. Caste and cast. And I do think it added something to some stories to see them as literally being born into their shell that was intended for a specific service. Maybe you grow up and want to be a simple caretaker for plants, but everything about you was built into fighting and dying on the front lines of a conflict where not a single other person cared about your welfare any-more than a headcount on a scroll.

I'm totally open to whatever generally though.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Lol. But that's exactly how the WF I played was "made". Part by part.
I know of WF from 3.5, but I don't own any Ebberron books. If they were in 4e? Then I know zero about that version as we'd already abanded that edition before they arrived.
So my 5e WF was a fighter (variant noble) EK. As he lv up, his "pit crew" of gnomish tinkerers would bolt on new gadgets allowing increased stats/spells/etc.

As Cream says, nothing wrong with using a race's stats to play a concept that don't have a better fit elsewhere.
Eberron Warforged however are more of a magical artificial lifeform than the common view of a robot. They can change their bodies over time (such as juggernauts growing spikes out of their body), but don't have anything approaching "mix-and-match options. Warforged arms don't bolt on any more than human ones do.

If you wanted to have something approaching the slots options in a more mainstream Eberron game, low-end magical items are probably more common, so warforged components may be readily available. Particularly in some of the nations with a strong emancipated warforged presence and large House Cannith operations. Many Warforged went into adventuring after the war, and so they have relatively high levels of cash as customers.

 

[QuietBrowser]

Alright, so, after seeing all the homebrewed Warforged in this thread, I want to try my own hand at one, but here's the thing; in addition to liking Keith Baker's subrace approach, wasn't there also a Large sized Warforged Titan variant in 3rd edition? Since 5e has simplified Large races to the formula of "Medium with Powerful Build racial feature" (even if they do seem to overestimate that feature's actual value), perhaps the right combination of "big, tough, powerful" racial features could allow for a Titan subrace to be viable?

Also, is there any sort of penalty due to not wearing armor without proficiency for it? I've been trying to figure out a way to make the "you can attach armor to yourself permanently" aspect of Integrated Armor actually, you know, worth something, and what I'm currently leaning towards is that either it gives you advantage on Constitution saves or else it lets you wear a heavier suit of armor without needing to get proficiency for it first.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

The warforged titan was a huge living construct used more as a semi-sentient siege weapon than a usable race. In one of the books (same book they presented the warforged scout) they also had the warforged charger, which appeared like a kind of gorilla-esque living construct.. I believe it was large sized, and although it was technically a race option, it I believe it had hit dice and a level adjustment, as well as heavy penalties to it's me talking stats.

 

[QuietBrowser]

So, query: I know folks generally liked Keith Baker's version of the Warforged better, which is understandable since pretty much all of the "Eberron Update" material was... distinctively unimpressive, but I have to ask if anyone honestly sees the point in the "Integrated Armor" feature. I mean, other than a 3.5 fluff shout-out, does it actually do anything, or does it fall under the "ribbon" category?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

So, query: I know folks generally liked Keith Baker's version of the Warforged better, which is understandable since pretty much all of the "Eberron Update" material was... distinctively unimpressive, but I have to ask if anyone honestly sees the point in the "Integrated Armor" feature. I mean, other than a 3.5 fluff shout-out, does it actually do anything, or does it fall under the "ribbon" category?

I wouldn't call it just a ribbon, because it is useful in some circumstances.
However, I would regard it as an extremely low-power and not relevant when looking at balancing the race's martial capability.