D&D 5E UA: What is a Mystic? (ability flavor discussion)

[SailorNash]

Here's a question I'm curious about:

Much of the Mystic discussion both now and before has been regarding flavor...pseudoscience, Far Realms, even the name itself. The other complaints largely have been around a handful of abilities (usually regarding speed or weapon buffs, often when multiclassing) or complaints that this is just another casting system.

I'm a little curious what everyone's personal preference for a Mystic would be, regarding the flavor of his individual powerset (as opposed to the power origin/backstory)?

For me, I'm okay with names like "telekenesis" or "telepathy", so long as they're still natural-language enough...some would likely need to be refluffled to something simpler. But I think the bad pseudoscience flavor for me instead has to do with the abilities themselves.

Balance issues aside, I kind of like someone being able to detect people through walls, or having Samurai-like focus on his blade to strike with extreme precision. Enduring the elements and not having to eat or sleep "feel" like classic mind-over-matter to me.

But becoming the ghostbros from the Matrix is molecular alteration...very sciencey, and not very mental. Being able to heal yourself seems fine, but "thinking wounds closed" is similar to previous Warlord arguments. I was surprised in general to see that many of these buffs were usable on others, and not self-only as the fiction would suggest.

Also, I feel that reality-warping should be the realm of the Wizard and not the Mystic...that's probably where some of the complaints that "it's just an alternate casting system" are coming from. Mystics do need something beyond just Psychic damage, for things that are resistant to that and Charms, but the further down the road they go with things like pyrokenesis the closer they come to a fire Sorcerer, or a Wizard shooting crystals instead of magic missiles.

Just wondering what everyone else thought, in terms of flavor rather than the newest numbers. Do you want abilities to desolidify or insert weapons into your body, or would you prefer things be limited to Jedi-like personal stunts and Purple Man mind control? How closely should they try to emulate Psions of years past, and which powers are most important to carry over for longtime fans, versus how many changes should be made along with the new moniker of "Mystic"? Where exactly should the line be drawn?

 

[Beleriphon]

Thinking wounds closed is a very mind over matter thing. It is using the character's mind to literally force the body to accelerate the natural healing process, or even improve upon that process.

As for the names, they're very fantasy derived, but if you look at them many are ancient Greek compound words. Which seems a very medieval way to name things!

 

[Gadget]

I like the direction they have taken with the flavor, particularly the name: Mystic. I like the Orders and societies (Awakened, Immortal), as it really feels like a fantasy mentalist, or jedi type of thing. The caveat is that I'm not to enamored with the Far Realm flavor (like many hear), but I can see the appeal.

I also agree with what I think the Original Post is saying in that I don't want a wizard/sorcerer in a slightly different guise that uses power points instead of 'spells'. This is basically what the 3.0 psion was, and, while a good effort for some, but not what I want. I think a lot more could be done with Telekinesis and Precognition type effects to give the Mystic more variety of abilities, though I don't mind self healing at all.

That being said, D&D5e is a game, and in order to function well in a game a new class needs to fill a certain niche and uphold certain standards and play styles. This may be less true for later 'splat' material than PH classes, but is still need to be accepted as good design. This is where I think the 3.0 design fell down: "Let's see, d4 HD, Mental stats very helpful, strong will save, must fill the wizard slot fairly well". The trick is keeping in tune with the desired fiction while maintaining broad mechanical functionality within the context of the game as it is commonly played with out compromising one or the other. I think that can be a fine line to walk.

 

[SailorNash]

But see, I may be framing the debate by saying "mind over matter" because my ideal character types would be Charles Xavier and Luke Skywalker as I want to play a mentalist.

To a Second Ed guy, it might be a pulpy scientist, as he's trying to model a Psion. For Third or Fourth Ed, one of those glowing-eyed crystal guys?

To WotC, their ideal may be something aberration-based and closer to a GOO Warlock, given the Far Realms power source.

Not to mention that some of us love Psionics and want to save it, while the rest of us abhor it and want to convert it into something bearable before it arrives in 5e. There historically hasn't been much middle ground.

We're all talking about kind of the same thing, and all understand that thing is in the process of change if not a complete overhaul. So I'm curious as to what everyone expects of the end result, since we're coming from so many different vantage points.

 

[Yaarel]

The 3e Psion (Expanded Psionic Handbook) was amazing in it day. It had the only well-thought-out mechanics for true spontaneous spellcasting. This mechanical niche was desperately necessary, and the Psion fulfilled this role with a style that is fun.

The problem now is, in 5e, all spellcasters can cast spontaneously. The 5e Wizard can use any slot for any spell in mind, essentially using the slots as neutral points to fuel the spell. Moreover, the 5e Wizard can routinely use a higher level spell slot to ‘augment’ a lower level spell. Arguably, this use of slots is a simpler and better spontaneous system than the 3e spell points.

Effectively, all 5e casters use spell points. So, this mechanical niche no longer exists. The designers seem to be groping for a suitable niche for the Psionic traditions, similar to their groping for a niche for the traditions about the Sorcerer, whose niche had also been mechanical.

To turn the Psion into something that it never was, will make most Psion fans unhappy. Personally, I hate the dependence on the Far Realms, and wont buy products that describe it.

It is best to return to Psionic basics, the power of the mind and the potential of a brain.

Flavorwise, the essence of Psionics is:
• Telekinesis (and related force effects, Fly, Wall of Force, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, etcetera)
• Telepathy (and related mind effects, such as Charm, Fear, and Illusion)
• Prescience (namely Divination)
• Teleportation (actually an aspect of Divination, as remote presence of the mind, including planar and temporal effects)
• Shapeshifting (psychosomatic effects, including lycanthrope-like transformations, are especially medievalesque)
• Healing (psychic healers are an important archetype, and relate to Shapeshifting)

This is the place to start. All of it is mind-over-matter.

 

[Yaarel]

To help distinguish Psionics from ‘Magic’, it makes sense to narratively divide between ‘Ethereal’ powers and ‘Astral’ powers.

Ethereal powers include the Ethereal plane, and within it, the arcane Feywild and necromantic Shadowfell, and all the Elemental plane and its respective regions of the four elements. The Ethereal ‘Ether’ is itself the fifth element. The Ether serves well as the Weave itself. These substantiate the physical aspects of the Material plane.

By contrast, Astral powers include the Astral plane, and within it, all the alignment planes, dream planes, and personal and cultural domains, and so on, within the realms of ideas.

I suppose, the Astral Realm can also include the Far Realms, as the insane side of ideas.

The ideal paradigms inform the rational and emotional aspects of the Material plane. The Astral ‘Aster’ is especially present as the conscious souls of living persons.

Psionics aligns moreso with the Astral aspects.

 

[Yaarel]

Bogmad just posted this in an other thread. It is a story that works well in the Forgotten Realms setting where magic is common. It might not apply to a Psionic-only setting, for example. It is a pretty good characterization of Psionics within certain D&D traditions.

In a world inundated with magic, a new kind of power has arisen outside the weave and dominion of the gods. Spiritually and politically it has threatened the status quo, as it stresses the power of the individual mind itself unfettered, without any exotic energy or granted boons; also, by not interacting with traditional magic, it thus proves near impossible to subvert via the regular and understood esoteric institutions. It also makes [your character] a target, but undaunted [you] strive to make your way in the world.

 

[Lanliss]

I like the basic look of the mystic, though I have not done any playing with it. I like the flavor of Far Realm, because it makes me think Lovecraftian. The far realm Warlock focuses on the control of people's minds, while the mystic focuses on the power of the mind required to take the far realm energies. It is basically the Far Realm sorcerer, IMO anyway, with self taken powers instead of powers that were given to it.

 

[bogmad]

I'd agree that I'd prefer psionic/mystic powers to be more telepathic and telekinetic than reality warping. Especially with disciplines focusing on those types of powers I don't think I need or want too much of the far realm influence intruding in either.

As far as the science-y pulp names... I don't mind them. We already have telepathy as an ability in this edition. What name do you replace telekinesis with? And do you just give a mystic mage hand as a cantrip/talent, rename it something else, or create a new slightly different "talent"?
Do you make telekinesis a discipline and just grant mage hand as the focus power? Probably a bad idea, as that confuses things since the focuses so far have been passive benefits. Needs to be on the talent list in some form.

A Telekineticist or "Order of the Mover" I'd say is more of what I'd want as a base subclass of the mystic more than the Immortal, but I imagine Wotc thinks a psychic warrior is a more necessary/harder archetype to get right.

Then you get to more out-there types of psionics that have a long existence in the game that I'd feel bad about leaving out entirely (except crystals; I kinda hate the crystal familiar thing as a default).

PYROkinesis I'd say needs to be included, as I'd argue a firestarter/Elizabeth Sherman from BPRD is an archetype I'd want even if it's not overly medieval. I'd make it clear the flames from this are mundane, not magic. [Yes, BPRD/liz is all kindsa far realmsy flavored/not mundane, but I'd rather not die on this bridge for this power right now.] I'd say the fire from this is generated just by agitating molecules/matter in front of you. Basically telekinesis on a smaller level... but who knows if thy mystic knows exactly what is happening here, no reason to get too sciency with it. It could be an emotional harnessing or concentration on entropic forces that guides the discipline, but not calling flames from the hells. You could even add something in the order description about the discipline of it being in concentrating on keeping that emotion in check to restrain from calling flames at random. Add a "wild surge" or chance of randomness somewhere to flavor it differently than an elemental sorcerer/wizard.

Then you get to the shaper/body modification types... I'm not a big fan of these, but they're there and have been for a while soo...
As much as I'm not a fan of the Far Realms being baked in by default, I'm not actually as opposed to it for this subclass/order. In that these disciplines warps reality/bends matter to different forms I'd say having the FarR involved actually works. You play up the body horror, grotesque elements of it, with tinges of madness and I say it actually feels better and more connected, fluff-wise.
"But Bogmad," you say "how is reshaping the molecules in your body different than agitating molecules to start fires?"
Well, it's a lot more complicated a procedure for one. It's such precision work that I'd argue a sane mind couldn't be able to comprehend or do the work involved. You'd destroy yourself just "practicing." You let a mad mind be guided by sublime but insane horrors from beyond the pale... ok then maybe you can give yourself that warped tentacle arm... it takes a sort of unhinged madness just to try going down this path.

If you have to include crystals, the "Shaper" simply creates crystals out of nothing, because ... it's easier. There's a certain simpleness to it. A lot easier to reshape molecules according to geometric models than the chaos of a living organism.

The main thing is that the Far Realms aren't some source or substance of psionic power. Maybe they can aid in harnessing them by opening you up to the possibility or guiding a specific Order, but save "being infused with forces from the Far Realms" for a sorcerer subclass.

And then you have the psychoportive disciplines, but I've already tired myself out thinking about the rest.

 

[77IM]

I really like the pseudoscience terms and unusual class name like "psion" or "psychic". I like the weird angle of psionics. I get why people want to scrub away that flavor and pick something that fits in better with a D&D fantasy world. But to me the whole point is that it doesn't fit in. To me, a setting with psionics should be noticeably stranger and more science-fictiony than the traditional fantasy setting.