Uhg, grapple rules AGAIN

[Oryan77]

So everyone loves the grapple rules, and I have another question about it...

With Evard's Black Tentacles, does the damage that they inflict come the round after the successful grapple check or during that same round the spell is cast?

Also, it says that "Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles". Does this mean that every round that someone is in the tentacles & not grappling, they have to make a grapple check?

For example, a guy was grappled by the tentacles and escapes the area. He then walks back through that area. By "immediately attacked", does that mean he has to make another grapple check when he steps back in the area?

And while I'm on the grapple subject....

Why does the grapple paragraph "Attack Your Opponent" say you may do an unarmed strike along with other attacks followed by "You take a -4 penalty" but then under "Damage Your Opponent" it says you take a -4 penalty only when doing lethal damage?

 

[Vegepygmy]

With Evard's Black Tentacles, does the damage that they inflict come the round after the successful grapple check or during that same round the spell is cast?

The damage is a result of being grappled, so it occurs when the grapple check is made.

Also, it says that "Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles". Does this mean that every round that someone is in the tentacles & not grappling, they have to make a grapple check?

Every round they remain in the spell's area, yes. (Note: This is a point of contention for some people. I'm sure they'll speak up shortly. )

For example, a guy was grappled by the tentacles and escapes the area. He then walks back through that area. By "immediately attacked", does that mean he has to make another grapple check when he steps back in the area?

Yep.

And while I'm on the grapple subject....

Why does the grapple paragraph "Attack Your Opponent" say you may do an unarmed strike along with other attacks followed by "You take a -4 penalty" but then under "Damage Your Opponent" it says you take a -4 penalty only when doing lethal damage?

I don't understand the question. It says that because those are the rules.

 

[Oryan77]

I don't understand the question. It says that because those are the rules.

Nevermind, I realized that in the first paragraph it's assuming your unarmed attack will be lethal. I was thinking of it as assuming the unarmed attack would be nonlethal. So I was wondering why it said you take a -4 attack. Oops.

 

[shilsen]

The damage is a result of being grappled, so it occurs when the grapple check is made.

I'm going to disagree. The spell says "Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage." When you cast the spell, the tentacles get a chance to grapple an opponent immediately, and next round, on your turn they get a chance to do damage.

Or at least that's how I read it.

 

[Oryan77]

I'm going to disagree. The spell says "Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage." When you cast the spell, the tentacles get a chance to grapple an opponent immediately, and next round, on your turn they get a chance to do damage.

Or at least that's how I read it.

That's how I read it also; which is why I asked. Rats, now I still don't know

 

[Vegepygmy]

No, shilsen is right. I didn't bother to read the spell description. Rookie mistake.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why does the grapple paragraph "Attack Your Opponent" say you may do an unarmed strike along with other attacks followed by "You take a -4 penalty" but then under "Damage Your Opponent" it says you take a -4 penalty only when doing lethal damage?

Attack Your Opponent and Damage Your Opponent are two completely different options.

Attack Your Opponent means to make an attack roll against his AC with a light weapon (or unarmed strike or natural weapon). This attack roll takes a -4 penalty, because you're grappling. If you attack with an unarmed strike, you take a -4 penalty and deal nonlethal damage. If you attack with an unarmed strike and want to deal deal damage, you take another -4 penalty, for a total of -8 on the roll.

Damage Your Opponent means to utilise the grapple itself to hurt your opponent. Think of it as choking, squeezing, joint damage, whatever. This uses an opposed grapple check, not an attack roll. If you wish to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.

Imagine an ogre grappling a halfling. The ogre will probably use the Damage Your Opponent option; the halfling has a good AC (size Small, high Dex, etc), but a lousy grapple check... it's easier for the ogre to win an opposed grapple check than an attack roll vs AC. The halfling, however, will use Attack Your Opponent - the ogre's AC is poor, but his grapple check is great. The halfling has a better chance of hurting the ogre with a punch than a bear hug.

-Hyp.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Interestingly enough, ran across Grappling for Beginners which re-imagines the core grappling rules into something a bit more easily run...

at least thats the blurb... off to find something to add to the $2.49 proce before buying