D&D 5E Ultimate Magic Playtesting to Start Next Week

[Steel_Wind]

But it doesn't say that.

It says it grants the ability to use spellstrike and spell combat when casting the spells, but it does not saying anything about adding those spells to the Magus spell list. The implication being that this only works for multiclass characters.

Now, you may be correctly reading something that is intended into it. Because it seems a really lame ability as written. But, it doesn't say that.

No, I think your interpretation is correct. And to be clear, it's REALLY bad rule drafting there. I'm sure that will be clarified within the next draft description of Broad Study.

Alright, so if the Magus multiclasses, he can Spellstrike with Inflict wounds. *sigh* I'm not so sure that's a wise watering down of a chacracter!

 

[Cor_Malek]

Well, it sounds hard to playtest a class that doesn't have its real class features (like spells).
Any data gained from false data would be largely unuseful because it was not the real class.

By the contrary, each part has to be analysed separately at first, to see if there's no problem with it. Then you can test other part, and then it's synergies. Otherwise how would you know if the problem lies within A, B or it's mixture? It's good practice to always limit number of variables, at least at first. It also allows more focus. And problems that are visible: a lot of confusion regarding what attack is made for free and which penalties stack, and perceived problem of too small chance to hit with spell combat at low levels would be no more or less adequate, no matter how many touch spells he has. There's enough to be tested as is.

Besides, this is Magus playtest v1. If it's deemed impossible to judge spellstrike without wider selection of spells available, there might be some included in next version of playtest.

 

[Shisumo]

Some people call Cleric/bards selfish so they don't have to consider how strong the classes really are.
It is mostly strawman and diversions.

The logic behind the restriction against using non-self-only buffs (in the case of clerics - I don't even know where bards would come into this) is that, if your options are a) apply a bunch of buffs to yourself to make yourself equal to the fighter or b) apply a bunch of buffs to the fighter, who is already as deadly as you would be with the buffs, the logical course of action is to go for b), because that gets the bigger bang for the buck. This is particularly true since the fighter can go off and be fighting people while you are buffing him (making those buffs useful immediately), while if you are buffing yourself, you're just standing there while the fight goes on around you.

It's not about selfishness in general, it's about selfishness that leads to bad tactics.

As for what that means with respect to the magus, I'm not sure. The biggest distinction that needs to be drawn is that the magus breaks the action economy argument once spell combat becomes a reliable choice at 8th level; they can buff themselves and make use of the buffs immediately. However, the magus spell list is actually pretty weak on single-target offensive buffs anyway, particularly ones that can be cast on other people - bull's strength and magic weapon (and greater version of same) are about it, and the arcane weapon ability really makes magic weapon and gmw obsolete besides. So I guess it's up to you whether you would think that a magus should be "allowed" to cast bull's strength on themselves or not.

(EDIT: for the record, the magus isn't likely to ever cast enlarge person on anyone except outside of combat, simply because it can't be used with spell combat. So I'm ignoring it - they can cast it on whoever they feel like before a fight, but I doubt most magi will even bother prepping it.)

 

[Walking Dad]

But the action economy isn't true for clerics at level 8+, either. Most of the buffs have a 10min/level duration, so they would be cast before the battle. And Greater Magic Weapon is a big deal. You buy special effects with the arcane weapon ability and add the enhancement bonus with the spell.

And for the Magus economy: They can attack the goblin before them and buff the fighter who attacks the golin leader.

 

[Shisumo]

But the action economy isn't true for clerics at level 8+, either. Most of the buffs have a 10min/level duration, so they would be cast before the battle.

The thread to which you were referring specifically permits 10 min/level precast buffs. I wasn't addressing them as a result. This is an in-combat casting argument only.

And Greater Magic Weapon is a big deal. You buy special effects with the arcane weapon ability and add the enhancement bonus with the spell.

You can, but I'm not big on sacrificing the magus' precious spell slots for something he's getting for free, and all I really care about is improving his attack bonus. I'd be more likely to consider it once I can extend GMW, but that's not until 10th level at the earliest.

And for the Magus economy: They can attack the goblin before them and buff the fighter who attacks the golin leader.

That's not really a bad plan, though I'd usually do something more like haste, so everybody benefits. I certainly am not arguing that the magus somehow has an inherent right to self-buff that other classes lack - but if the magus can only do his job effectively with the buffs, and can do his job effectively at the same time as he buffs, and the fighter can do his job effectively without buffs...

Also, there's the bigger problem of how the magus is a fighter-replacement character, and so may not actually have a fighter to buff. In every case, you'd need to best assess the situation and figure out where the buffs are best used.

 

[Walking Dad]

The thread to which you were referring specifically permits 10 min/level precast buffs. I wasn't addressing them as a result. This is an in-combat casting argument only.
...

In the thread (sorry, I cannot find the link at the moment, they criticize a cleric specifically for using GMW on himself.

... Also, there's the bigger problem of how the magus is a fighter-replacement character, and so may not actually have a fighter to buff. In every case, you'd need to best assess the situation and figure out where the buffs are best used.

Is this confirmed somewhere? I was wondering about his exact party role.

 

[Shisumo]

In the thread (sorry, I cannot find the link at the moment, they criticize a cleric specifically for using GMW on himself.

It's actually a druid using greater magic fang, and the criticism isn't about using it in gneral, it's that it doesn't actually add useful data to the damage comparison that is the thread's point. The issue is that if anyone in the group has greater magic weapon, then they probably all do, so including it for the cleric but excluding it for the fighter doesn't actually add meaningful distinction for determining the baseline amount of damage a class can do (the thread's stated purpose). It is, in effect, gaming the system for the purposes of "winning" the thread or something, and not actually useful. Of course a cleric should use greater magic weapon on her own weapon. She should also put it on the fighter and the rogue. That's just good tactics.

Is this confirmed somewhere? I was wondering about his exact party role.

Not explicitly, but I can't imagine what else he's going to do.

 

[Walking Dad]

... Of course a cleric should use greater magic weapon on her own weapon. She should also put it on the fighter and the rogue. That's just good tactics.
It is a 4th level spell. At level 10 (for example) it is questionable that casting it 3 times is a good tactic.
...

Restoration, spell immunity and death ward maybe more useful...

Not explicitly, but I can't imagine what else he's going to do.

And that is the problem. I don't know. The playtest on the paizo board show him at mid level to be nearly as useful in a fight as a fighter. But only by loosing 3/4th of his spells. Maybe he will be an alternative to the bard, ones the whole spell list is shown.

 

[pawsplay]

Alright, so if the Magus multiclasses, he can Spellstrike with Inflict wounds. *sigh* I'm not so sure that's a wise watering down of a chacracter!

Two things.

1. First, there are some exotic scenarios where you can cast spells without them being on your list. Arcane Disciple springs to mind, as well as using magical items to cast spells.

2. Second, you are assuming the Magus is going to provide the main spellcasting power. I'm looking at Magus 3/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10 as a possibility, with a level to spare. 16th level wizard casting at 19th level, 8th level spells, with the possibility of hitting BAB +16 (Magus 4 or any full BAB class will do it). Or... Magus 3/Cleric 17 looks kinds of nice... only +14 BAB, but able to use arcane spell trigger items and cast as a 17th level cleric. How about Harm as a nice little touch spell?

 

[DogBackward]

Pawsplay: Broad Study can't be taken until 6th level. You'll need at least Magus 6 to pull off any multiclassing combos.