Ultramodern Firearms d20 Web Preview

[tburdett]

I'm really curious.

Why do something if you're not going to do it right? Why spend any effort at all putting a book together with page after page of guns if the information about those guns is not accurate?

We already have, thanks to D20 Modern, the relative damage values for the large majority of firearms out there. All you need to do to figure out the damage for 'weapon x' is compare it to 'weapon y' in D20 modern.

The only selling point that I can see for this book is it's 'fluff'. If that 'fluff' is inaccurate, the entire book, in my opinion, is useless.

 

[Pramas]

I'm really curious.

Why do something if you're not going to do it right? Why spend any effort at all putting a book together with page after page of guns if the information about those guns is not accurate?

Charles Ryan spent quite a lot of time researching the info in this book. The original edition was in print for nearly a decade and I've never heard anyone complain about the content.

Right now we have one guy asserting one entry is innaccurate. I myself am not a gun expert, so I've asked Charles to look at this thread and answer some questions. He's having trouble posting to EN World for some reason, so I'll be posting his repsonses when I get them.

We work very hard on our books and we make every effort to keep up a high level of quality. The day I publish a book I know to have serious flaws in a cynical attempt to part gamers from their money is the day I quit the game industry.

 

[tburdett]

I never saw the original product and, considering the high quality of your previous products, was really surprised when I read...

"The introduction to the book (not included in the preview) explicitly states that this is a book about guns for roleplaying purposes and not a gun book with details about guns for gun enthusiasts. I'm comfortable with that distinction and freely admit you're not the target market for this book. "

... because it sounds like an attempt to excuse, in advance, some known or potential inaccuracies contained within the book. It was the phrasing of the statement, more than anything else, that led me to ask the question.

I can see now that she might have meant that the information presented would not be as comprehensive as some in the gun enthusiast community would like. I did not consider this possibility previously and I apologize if this is what she meant.

- I had to move a comma that was bothering me.

 

[Pramas]

I can see now that she might have meant that the information presented would not be as comprehensive as some in the gun enthusiast community would like. I did not consider this possibility previously and I apologize if this is what she meant.

Yes, what Nicole was saying was that this is a gun book written with the roleplayer in mind, not that we don't care about accuracy or getting it right.
We take quality seriously.

 

[philreed]

Quality vs. Realizm vs. Playability

Yes, what Nicole was saying was that this is a gun book written with the roleplayer in mind, not that we don't care about accuracy or getting it right.
We take quality seriously.

I am not a gun nut. I don't give a damn if the BlahBlahX6387328872a should do _slightly_ more damage (8d) than the BlahBlahX6387328872b (8d). It's a gun. I might pick the BlahBlahX6387328872a since I think my character's a fan of the classic and not interested in the newer "improved" model.

These are games. I have no doubts the quality of this book will be everything I expect while I could care less about matters like the above. So what if one gun weighs a pound more than the other in RL but the rules in this book don't reflect that.

There's a limit to the level of realism I want in my games. I want playability. I don't want to spend time arguing about the muzzle velocity of the HyperKineticKick'YoASS9 vs the muzzle velocity of the HyperKineticKick'YoASS8c-2. I don't give a damn. When I decide to go on a shooting rampage I might care. But probably not.

I want to play games for escapism. Not to run tactical exercises preparing for an assault on a bus full of 'tards and nuns.

I've never understood the insanity most gun nuts bring to the game table.

 

[dpmcalister]

That's one of the values of previews!

Quite honestly, I would MUCH rather that a person see in advance what the book is going to be like and decide it's not what they're looking for than have someone buy the book and then spend the next six months making snarky backhanded comments about it because it wasn't what they wanted or expected it to be.

Nicole

I totally agree

I'd rather see a preview and decide it's not for me, than spend around £20 (or whatever it's going to cost) and think, "what a waste of money".

With reference to your earlier post, again I agree. I'm probably not the target audience - fair point and well made

BTW, I'm not a "gun nut" - just happen to know a bit about the L85 because I'm in the Royal Air Force, and it's the rifle we train with (I use the L85A1 version). Ask me about other guns, and I wouldn't have a clue

 

[MinscFan]

I noticed some of the guns that are in the preview were in d20 Modern.

Have you included all of the guns form the core book in this book as well -- so that we have pictures and some histories for the "core guns" as well?

Also, will the book -- or perhaps a free web supplement -- have rules or a formula system for making our own guns / converting guns for d20 games?

 

[Leopold]

Re: Quality vs. Realizm vs. Playability

I am not a gun nut.

well i am.

There's a limit to the level of realism I want in my games. I want playability. I don't want to spend time arguing about the muzzle velocity of the HyperKineticKick'YoASS9 vs the muzzle velocity of the HyperKineticKick'YoASS8c-2. I don't give a damn. When I decide to go on a shooting rampage I might care. But probably not.

I for one want a game that is as accurate, as precise, and keeping in touch with what the modern day equivalent of weaponry that is put out in a book is. If a gun is supposed to weigh in at 10 lbs and it's 7lbs then the author didn't do his homework. Real life based material (that's what this is about) is supposed to be based on factual and accurate information. So far it's not, and for me it's important to have good information. You won't see JANE's making inaccurate assumptions on weaponry, they get it right and make sure it's right, and that's the type of level of realistic accuracy i am looking for when it comes to tactical weaponry.

I want to play games for escapism. Not to run tactical exercises preparing for an assault on a bus full of 'tards and nuns.

I like playing for escapism (like they'll let me place with a M16A2/M203a or a FAMAS in real life!), although I have no desire to shoot church going nuns or the handicapped, just evil demons from other planes with my OICW .

But I seriously hope you don't think all people who like firearms as a hobby, as a sport, and as a profession think about storming the alamo or executing people. As that is dead wrong! I hope you detract that statement.

I've never understood the insanity most gun nuts bring to the game table.

it has nothing to do with insanity or your belief that all gun nuts are crazy.

It has everything to do with ACCURACY and to anyone that has wielded a gun accuracy is life or death on the battlefiled. Just because we ask for a book based on real information found on the manufacturers site to be placed in a book based on that information to be ACCURATE. Is that too much to ask?

Will i buy the book? sure. I still need some stats on the guns and so forth. I have been waiting for it for a while and want a revamped version of it. Will I house rule it? Definately. I have several ex-military players as well as gun 'nuts' and will probably go through this with a fine tooth comb and change things as I see fit. That's the beauty of D20, I can alter it to my whim and say "Hey this says this, it should be THIS, let's use that instead."


Good job on putting this out GR! I will be buying one when it's released at my FLGS.

 

[philreed]

Re: Re: Quality vs. Realizm vs. Playability

It has nothing to do with insanity or your belief that all gun nuts are crazy.

I didn't mean it that way. Sorry.

 

[Bagpuss]

Does it include any rules for special ammunition?

Considering that firearms tend to be a big part of most modern RPG's D20 Modern seems to have really missed the market with its rules.

By limiting themselves to 2dX dice system with no +X they have made the range of calibers that matter really limited and since the accuracy modifer is only masterworked or not (+1 or +0) there is virtually no difference in handguns and hardly any difference in SMG's and Assault Rifles.

Virtually all handguns do the same damage so there is no reason to get anything other than a Glock 17, for its high magazine capacity, masterworked status and low size and weight.

Although you discribe the Desert Eagle as very accurate it gets no bonus to hit because it isn't "masterworked".

Its all a little too bland IMHO.

You might as well just buy a copy of JANE's and assign the 2dX values yourself.

It's not Ultramodern Firearms fault its D20 Modern's fault, for being so dull.