Ultramodern Firearms d20 Web Preview

Leopold,

Looks like UltraModern Firearms D20 is going to bring the fine medium of compromise to D20 Modern. How much playability are you willing to sacrifice in order to have that "Accurate" feel? My thought is if you want that exacting type of accuracy, D20 may not be the correct system.

Now for simple errors like gun weights, when has that really affected a game you were playing in or running? Keep in mind if you disagree with a weapon stat, you can always Rule 0 it!

Later - and I am looking forward to getting this book!
 

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You could use Ultramodern Firearms - $29.95 / £21.30 over 300 guns and sights

or

Jane's Guns Recognition Guide - $15.75 / £16.99 400 full colour photographs

and use your brain.

Hmmm close call.
 

Re: Quality vs. Realizm vs. Playability

philreed said:
I don't give a damn if the BlahBlahX6387328872a should do _slightly_ more damage (8d) than the BlahBlahX6387328872b (8d).

What ? That's crazy talk, man. If anything, the BlahBlah2a should do slightly less damage than the 2b, because of loss of kinetic energy in the badly designed barrel. I thought everybody knew that.

Get your facts straight, d00d !

(You should always get your facts straight before posting on UNSEnet. Hong does.)
 

Bagpuss said:
You could use Ultramodern Firearms - $29.95 / £21.30 over 300 guns and sights

or

Jane's Guns Recognition Guide - $15.75 / £16.99 400 full colour photographs

and use your brain.

That's a really good point. I've used gun catalogs and guides for years for Vampire games. Usually, extrapolating gun stats is very easy.

It's even what the game Feng Shui suggests that you do.

(Sorry, Chris :o )
 
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NeghVar said:
Leopold,

Looks like UltraModern Firearms D20 is going to bring the fine medium of compromise to D20 Modern. How much playability are you willing to sacrifice in order to have that "Accurate" feel? My thought is if you want that exacting type of accuracy, D20 may not be the correct system.

Now for simple errors like gun weights, when has that really affected a game you were playing in or running? Keep in mind if you disagree with a weapon stat, you can always Rule 0 it!

Later - and I am looking forward to getting this book!



i am willing to take everything with a grain of salt on this. Heck i don't have time to build the whole thing from the ground up on this with a JANE's magazine but keep it close to modern equivilents.

IF a gun is stated as having full-auto in the book and it's only semi-auto in rl or maybe even Burst fire then the book is flawed IMHO. I will have to take that part and edit that out stating otherwise. Simple things like that bug me as that is just a matter of R&D doing a good job on things that are out there, and as shown a $16 book will give you the skinny on the matter (or even a subscription to JANE's will do! I would be jealous of CR if he had access to that!!!).

Caliber and so forth are a whole new ball of wax. Any new types of ammo in the book??

The book is going to be worth picking up for the mechanics and rules alone. I will have to tweak it to my tastes but that's what i like about D20.


As for the modern ruleset? I don't like them as much as i thought I would, I like some of it but others i will take out per my perogative. But that's neither here nor there..
 

I've thought as much as well. I like lots of choices, but if all the choices mean is a different weight or look, I can get that from Jane's rather than from this book. I was kinda hoping this book would revamp the dullness of firearms from d20 Modern and really make them something that contains lots of options.

And maybe it will - I'll have to look at it. But it doesn't sound like it.

Oh, does it have the GE Minigun in it? Big mistake to leave that out of the Modern, IMO. :D
 

Joshua Dyal said:
Oh, does it have the GE Minigun in it? Big mistake to leave that out of the Modern, IMO. :D

GE Minigun?

minigun.jpg


Why would anyone want a weapon that in the D20 Modern system would only target a 10' x 10' area, forcing a average (DC 15) REFLEX save to avoid any damage. Even if they failed the save they would only take 2d10 damage (or 2d8 depending on the caliber). Plus you would be out of ammo in about 3 rounds, if not before if you had multiple attacks.
 
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Posting on behalf of Charles Ryan, who is having trouble posting to the boards himself.

Begin posted text:
-----------
[I've asked Chris or Nicole to post this for me--although I visit ENworld every day and read these boards, I have a lot of trouble posting. I'm happy to answer questions about Ultramodern Firearms or d20 Modern, but the best way to get a quick answer out of me is to catch me on the WotC d20 Modern boards.]

Thanks for all the great comments on the Ultramodern Firearms preview. Wait until you see the entire book!

Dave McAlister pointed out a couple errors in the L85 entry. (I haven't had a chance to go back into my research and check these out, but for now I'll take Dave's word for it that these errors are real.) Specifically, he found a misprint in the name and a misstatement about the presence of backup iron sights. While I don't want to downplay the importance of any error in a book that is supposed to be well-researched, I hope Dave and others will keep them in perspective. The preview contains 18 weapons, fully detailed, accurately statted, and beautifully illustrated. Given all this great information--and the hundreds of other weapons, game rules, feats, and features in the whole book--I'd hate for anyone to make their buying decision over the question of whether or not the L85 has auxiliary sights.

[As an aside, I went back and looked at the original edition. Although the new edition was heavily revised, the descriptive text for the L85 contained the same errors in the original edition. It was in print for nearly 10 years and sold thousands and thousands of copies--but the errors in question have never before been brought to my attention and don't appear to have dampened the praise the book has received.]

As for the game stats, the couple of complaints that have been voiced are really concerns about d20 Modern in general, rather than Ultramodern Firearms in particular. I've posted a few thoughts on this topic over on the WotC boards (in this thread). The short version is that given the lethality of d20 Modern's massive damage system, and the importance of other factors besides damage value (range increment, masterwork bonuses, concealability, and magazine capacity, to name a few), I think you'll find in play that the d20 Modern statting conventions do a great job of highlighting the relative strengths and weaknesses of various weapons. And that makes for a much more interesting game than one where a given weapon is clearly superior to others because it deals the most damage. Anyway, if you're interested in a broader discussion of that topic, I invite to you come check it out.

Thanks again for all the great comments! Sorry I can't post myself, or I'd be here more often!

--
Charles Ryan
Editor, RPG R&D
Wizards of the Coast
 

Personally I'm glad d20 Modern chose to go with game-play over supposed realism. I've seen far too many games where far and away the best choice for a longarm was the FN-FAL and that made all characters look alike.

Also, the real-life reasons people prefer one firearm over another don't translate well to an RPG. How do you model subtleties such as trigger pull, or how the iron sights feel to you, or whether or not the trigger catches on clothing? All those are reasons that a real world person prefers one gun over another but to model them you'd need a metric butt-load of tiny rules. Even then you'd be leaving out so much that you'd have at best a mockery of realism.

Oftentimes abstraction gets you a better model than overwhelming detail.
 

Originally posted by Nikchick on behalf of Charles Ryan
[As an aside, I went back and looked at the original edition. Although the new edition was heavily revised, the descriptive text for the L85 contained the same errors in the original edition. It was in print for nearly 10 years and sold thousands and thousands of copies--but the errors in question have never before been brought to my attention and don't appear to have dampened the praise the book has received.]

I never bought the original so can't comment on any errors in it. But what I will say is I find it rather amusing (for wont of a better word) that you've used the same descriptive text as a supplement that's almost TEN years old!

I mean not updating your research on a weapon that is the standard issue rifle for a country's armed forces is a bit of an over-sight - to put it bluntly.

Your comments reinforce, even more, my decision not to buy Ultramodern Firearms. In fact, d20 Modern is sliding down the list of buys as well now...
 
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