Umbral Template in Dragon too powerful?

[Particle_Man]

I don't know if this was a problem with the umbral template before, but as described in Dragon # 322 it seems too powerful to me to allow for creatures of non standard size. A colossal dragon with this template will drain 4d6 str per successful attack, and they will get a lot of attacks. That is a tpk scenario. Going the other way, a fine creature will be almost impossible to detect, much less hit, as the party's characters lose 1str per attack and perhaps don't realize why (especially if the creature attacks sleeping party members at night...will the people on watch even know what is going on?)

Am I missing something here?

 

[Derulbaskul]

However, all it takes is a death ward spell and the character(s) is(are) immune to its Str draining attack.

 

[Particle_Man]

And all it takes is a dispel magic spell (and dragons have spells) to eliminate the death ward. The umbral colossal creature is just too powerful.

 

[Scion]

What is the LA? CR adjustment?

Also, ray of enfeeblement will make you immune

While dragons do have spells their effective caster level usually isnt so hot, so greater dispel isnt likely to do a whole lot.

Still though, those are just some random comments. I havent seen the one in dragon, does anyone know if it is effectively the same as the one is savage species?

 

[Sejs]

How about a different question - how much more powerful is your colossal dragon with the umbral template when compared to oh.. say a normal colossal dragon?

 

[Particle_Man]

Lots. Characters have hit points and temporary hit points and usually have time to get healed from round to round. And sources of healing are more common than sources of removing ability damage. And characters can usually position themselves to have the tanks soak up damage, if damage must be soaked up.

Characters don't usually have strength points to resist these kinds of attacks, like they can resist hp attacks. In one round, one attack by a shadow dragon will do on average 14 str damage. 3 touch attacks (claw/claw/bite) do an average of 42 str damage. Since these guys are incorporeal and not stupid, they can target the non-California governors in the party on the off-chance that someone actually has 43 str or higher. And dragons going all out have more than 3 attacks. This is not just a tough fight. This is tpk land.

 

[coyote6]

Shadows remain a threat to PCs (or are at least perceived as such, by the PCs) much longer than other CR 3 creatures, IME, thanks almost entirely to being incorporeal (50% of all non-force, non-ghost touch attacks are wasted; a few moderately good rolls can mean several rounds of misses) and doing Str damage. An 8th or 9th level character will have ~3 times the hp he had at 3rd level, but his Str is likely only 1-3 pts higher, tops. Touch AC isn't likely to have increased that much, either. Add in the fact that restoration spells take so long to cast that they're largely useless in combat, and that (below 10th level & lacking the Sun domain or other "destroy rather than turn" abilities) turning shadows only delays the fight, and shadows are fearsome far longer than, say, gricks.

Now give that shadow a colossal creature's HD & attack bonus, and quadruple the Str damage, and you do have a good recipe for TPK. Incorporealness also does a great job of negating one of the disadvantages of a Colossal creature -- they can hide under the floor, and you'll never see (or hear) 'em until it's way too late.

 

[Derulbaskul]

And all it takes is a dispel magic spell (and dragons have spells) to eliminate the death ward. The umbral colossal creature is just too powerful.

Yes, but what's the chance of the dispel (particularly if it is only the 3rd level spell) working for an encounter of this CR/EL?

 

[Darklone]

Source: Dragon mag.

More answers needed?

 

[Particle_Man]

Yes, but what's the chance of the dispel (particularly if it is only the 3rd level spell) working for an encounter of this CR/EL?

1) A greater dispel magic is not beyond a colossal dragon's abilities. A great wyrm red dragon is colossal and has caster level 19.

2) Since as mentioned above, an umbral colossal dragon can hide under the floor, they have a good chance of getting in a surprise round attack (14 str drained on average right there). If they win initiative, they can go to town (lots more str damage). If the dragon takes out the cleric/paladin/druid type first, there goes the party access to deathward. So unless someone (actually, everyone) has deathward on 24/7, this ain't gonna work (and it has a duration of 1 min/lvl). And if everyone has to always have deathward on 24/7, or some item that does the same, for every member of the party, that would simply be proof that this monster is too powerful.