UMD, Staffs & Caster Level

[javcs]

Hyp's not stating a houserule.

He's saying, to condense it, that a) you're not emulating the 'spells' class feature in order to use spell trigger items, as the half-caster classes (ie paladin and ranger) can activate spell trigger items before they gain the 'spells' class feature, b) the class spell list is neither part of the 'spells' class feature, nor is it a class feature, not being listed under the 'class features' portion of the individual class descriptions, c) your error in reasoning lies in your assumption that the spell list is part of the spells class feature.

Also, according to the SRD UMD DC table, the check to emulate a class feature is 20, not 21.

Just because a class feature references something doesn't mean that it is a class feature.
Otherwise, because the sudden strike and skirmish class feature descriptions reference sneak attack, the rogue would be vastly outclassed, since, as per your logic, because sneak attack is referenced in the class features of both the ninja and the scout, by god, they've got sneak attack, which happens to stack with both sudden strike and skirmish. Yes, that's a boatload of d6's getting picked up that shouldn't be.


Also as a function of his class, a barbarian has his d12 hit die. Now, if Hyp and I are correct in our interpretation of what you are saying, a rogue would be able to emulate that barbarian's d12 HD, granted he'd have to make a DC 20 UMD check every hour or so, but still, that's not something that should be happening.

 

[Fedifensor]

Also as a function of his class, a barbarian has his d12 hit die. Now, if Hyp and I are correct in our interpretation of what you are saying, a rogue would be able to emulate that barbarian's d12 HD, granted he'd have to make a DC 20 UMD check every hour or so, but still, that's not something that should be happening.

Note that UMD does not actually give you the class feature, it just lets you emulate it for purposes of item use.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that UMD does not actually give you the class feature, it just lets you emulate it for purposes of item use.

Right. But to activate a wand of fireball, you need to have fireball on your class spell list. And emulating the wizard's 'Spells' class feature doesn't put fireball on your class spell list. The 'Activate a Wand' function of UMD does.

-Hyp.

 

[Krafen]

Staffs are activated via UMD the same way wands are. Staffs, however, can use the caster level of the user. Is there a caster level resultant from a UMD check, or must one simply use the caster level of the staff itself?

I'm curious to know if staffs are worthwhile for a warlock.

Well, as a Warlock, you have an arcane caster level equal to your class level.

Think in terms of spells that you will want to use regularly and that rely on caster level to be effective. You might as well just use a wand for spells that don't rely on caster level to be effective.

A few examples might be Magic Vestment, Barkskin, Conviction, and Divine Favor. The first three have decent durations and the last is nice to have for those tough battles.

 

[Kurotowa]

Well, as a Warlock, you have an arcane caster level equal to your class level.

Good point, I lost track of that in the UMD debate. The point is moot for a Warlock because they have their own caster level. In fact Warlocks just love staves. Wands and scrolls are nice, and an essential part of the Warlock's arsenal, but past a point the low caster levels get rough. Once staves enter the picture the Warlock suddenly has access to spell effects using their own caster level. I believe Craft Staff is the second most popular 12th level feat after Scribe Scroll.