"Unarmed" damage for natural weapons

[buzz]

There is a list of actions you can take while grappling. Here are the two you need to read:

Ah, now THAT is pointing me in the right direction. Much better than the flurry of blows reference. I must have read that section over and over, but missed this.

The Sage, as it happens more often than not, is completely out to lunch.

Well, Skip != Sage anymore. Now it's Andy Collins. I'm still curious to see what he has to say, assuming I get an answer.

I hereby request that MM entries from now on have an "unarmed" damage listed next to the Grapple modifier.

Thanks!

 

[Hypersmurf]

I hereby request that MM entries from now on have an "unarmed" damage listed next to the Grapple modifier.

Well, it's directly related to size category, unless you have monk levels or a monk's belt.

1d3 for Medium; scale appropriately.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Interestingly, Skip said the opposite in the 3.0 Main FAQ, in the entry below.

(Of course, this response also established that grappling is always done by BAB, which really complicated things and required the separate entry in 3.5. In my 3.0 game I personally ignore both parts of this and just have creatures always grapple using natural attack to-hit and damage.)

Can a creature with two natural weapons, say two claws,
make two grapple attempts in a single round? Could a
character using the rules for fighting with two weapons pull
off the same trick? Exactly how many grapple checks can
you make each round?

You can make one grapple check for every attack your base
attack bonus normally allows. The number of weapons you use
doesn’t affect the number of grapple checks you can make. For
example, a dire ape, an animal with 5 Hit Dice, has a base
attack bonus of +3, so it can make only one grapple check each
round despite its three natural weapons. Note that when you opt
to deal damage with a grapple, you deal subdual damage
according to your size, not your natural weapon. For example, a
dire ape (a Large creature) deals 1d4 points of subdual damage
with a successful grapple attack, plus its Strength bonus of +6.
Note that creatures with the improved grab special attack can
use their natural weapons in a grapple. Note also that monk
characters deal their unarmed strike damage with successful
grapple checks. Monks and creatures with improved grab are
formidable grapplers....

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Why, certainly you can.
"If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check."

Ah. Excellent. So grappling is still useful for crushing things with an AC too high to hit normally.

And, for the most part, the difference in damage die isn't that big a deal -- Str bonus tends to account for most of the damage once you get to mid-level beasties. The category that gets hosed the most would be single-weapon monsters such as dire boar, as they get to add 1.5x Str to natural weapons but (if I have this right) only 1x Str to grapple damage. (How does a dire boar grapple? Probably by sitting on you.)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The category that gets hosed the most would be single-weapon monsters such as dire boar, as they get to add 1.5x Str to natural weapons but (if I have this right) only 1x Str to grapple damage. (How does a dire boar grapple? Probably by sitting on you.)

Correct on the first.

I'd imagine the second involves a lot of rolling around and grunting.

 

[Hypersmurf]

(How does a dire boar grapple? Probably by sitting on you.)

I still remember how awed I was when someone pointed out that at 5th level, the paladin's warhorse typically has a better grapple check than the paladin does...

-Hyp.