unarmed/no equipment rules?

[bennyhobo]

Inspired by a scene suggested in another thread...

What if my players have been relieved of their weapons and armor, and are attacked? Or, in the scene I'm thinking of, they're taking a break in a royal bathhouse as a reward for a completed quest. Are there existing rules for running unarmed combat? I know I could just print duplicate character sheets from the Character Builder with their equipment removed, but I'm hoping that's not necessary?

Thanks!

 

[Shin Okada]

They just fight without weapons, implements and other gear.

They don't gain bonus to AC or defenses from their armor, shield and neck slot items. Melee combatants should either fight unarmed or use improvised weapons. Implement wielders can still use their implement powers but cannot gain enhancement bonus and other benefit from their magic implements (remember implement powers can be used without no implements at all).

I know I could just print duplicate character sheets from the Character Builder with their equipment removed, but I'm hoping that's not necessary?

If you actually do that, that will help your players as they don't need to re-calculate various numbers and stats.

 

[Dungeon Masta]

Get ready for some Str/Dex vs Reflex rolls for stealing weapons from the baddies with weapons!

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Additionally, some things to keep in mind:

1. I don't know how high your characters' levels are, but the higher they are, the bigger a difference a lack of equipment makes.

2. You should likely field monsters of lower level than you normally would, to counter act the lack of equipment bonuses. The lower monster HPs also really helps if you have a lot of weapon users who depend on those weapons for their DPR.

3. You are penalising weapon users (who depend on the weapon's proficiency bonus and who deal weapon damage) and heavy armour users (who typically don't have stat bonuses to AC) more than other characters. Characters such as fighters, who fall into both categories, are doubly penalised and basically loose their ability to fulfill their role as defender as they can no longer take the hits nor effectively punish those who don't follow the mark.

4. Between the three, AC will suffer more than to hit or non-AC defences - after all, a 6th level plate and heavy shield palladin sword wielder who is deprived of equipment likely suffers from a -2 to NADs (enhancement), a -5 to hit (proficiency & enhancement) and a whopping -12 to AC (armour, shield, enchancement)! To help even this out, you may want to choose monsters that primarily attack NADs as that mostly avoids the "problem" of needing a 3 to hit one character and a 15 for another.


Not to say any of these things are bad (indeed, it can be fun to have a roll reversal where the sorceror is protecting the palladin), but they are things you ought to consider based on what is fun for you and your group.

 

[The_Fan]

Given the difficulties, I might even run it as a skill challenge. The characters need to get to their equipment while evading enemies and traps or making improvised weapons. Due to the difficulties involved with fighting unarmed and unarmored, it might be better if you make the unarmed fight a penalty for failing the skill challenge, not the default.

Some sample skills:

Athletics: The character quickly swims across the pool, dumps a burning brazier, throws a tapestry, or otherwise does something with the environment to put some space between himself and his attackers

Acrobatics: Jumping between pillars, vaulting over benches, or just outmaneuvering the assailants so they get in each other's way.

Arcana: A quick improvised spell to distract, like changing the existing spell on the bathhouse ceiling (currently displaying the stars) to display a horrible lidless eye.

Intimidate: Doing something crazy, like just turning around and roaring at them.

Insight: Outmaneuvering the enemies by figuring out where they are trying to flank from and going the other way.

Perception: Doesn't net a success, but does help you later to figure out who these guys are. Also doesn't count as a failure.

Stealth: Hiding underwater (may also require endurance), in the steam, behind a tapestry, etc.

Thievery: Something clever, like pouring more water on the coals to increase the steam, or monkey wrenching the plumbing to blow a gasket. Doesn't add a success, but can add +2 or +5 to an appropriate roll.

If there are minions involved, be sure to have some of them taken out by things like falling into the bath with armor on or a steam valve blowing in their face. You can have a few of them killed or incapacitated this way without changing the numbers in the fight (if it occurs) by simply not telling the players how many there are to start with.

If the players win the skill challenge, they get to a room where they can put on their gear. and can burst out to challenge their assailants on equal terms. You can either have the enemies still there and ready to fight (now, it should be a cakewalk) or you can have them escape before the party is ready (they're assassins, they don't get paid for a fair fight!). Either way, give them XP for the skill challenge if they succeed, and the same amount of XP for the unarmed fight if they fail.

 

[bennyhobo]

This is great advice! Thanks!

 

[mneme]

FWIW, I just played in an LFR adventure that deprives the players of their equipment -- and has them go through various fights with partial or inadequate equipment. Variations include (yes, within the same adventure):

No equipment: they never actually have to fight this way -- probably a good thing, though one where the characters had to grab equipment in the middle of the fight could be fun.

Makeshift equipment: The characters find various objects they can form into makeshift, temporary versions of simple weapons (no armor or shields, though).

Inadequate equipment: The characters find a cache of armor and weapons -- including both nonmagical weapons and the magical treasure they're getting out of the adventure (which since it's LFR, includes a reasonable number of magic items, some at level).

And it's possible that they could have completely geared up by the end, though it was very much a tradeoff.

The adventure worked very well (and yes, the baddies were somewhat understatted from what one would have expected had the characters been fully equipped), and I think one can draw some general lessons from it:

1. It's a lot better to let the characters fight with bad weapons/armor than -no- weapons/armor. So sure, deprive them of armor for the first fight (and understat it a lot), but let them get -something- to wear for the later ones or the heavy armor wielders will be hurting badly. Re weapons, you need to have weapons they can grab, probably even in the first fight (though if those weapons are held by the baddies, that can be ok if the party composition is such that this is a teamwork problem -- the casters kill the first wave of baddies while the weapon folks use pool equipment as makeshift clubs, the weapon folks now have adequiate weapons, but may have to adjust thier tactics for the int/dex folk having better defenses (until they can find some breathing space and put on chain from slain foes) than they do.

2. Have a lot of terrain features the PCs and NPCs can take advantage of. Even if you're stuck without a weapon for the moment, you might be effective by bull rushing a baddie into the pool or whatnot.

The fun part of this exercise is that it exercises creativity -- as the party has to use very different tactics from their usual set (particularly if the terrain also messes with their usual mojo) . But overdo it and it could turn into a slog.