Undead and Critical Hits

[Ranger REG]

Actually, in addition to their heart, vampires can be slain by beheading. Check out the Vorpal description in the DMG.

Most Western vampires can. In some Eastern cultures, vampires can separate their heads from their bodies and float to look for their victims.

 

[Celebrim]

If you wanted you could certainly create undead that had as an extraordinary ability 'weapon vulnerability' that allowed them to take critical hits. I've no problem with that, and indeed find it interesting.

As far as the others go, neither zombies, nor skeletons, (nor for the most part vampires) are subject to critical hits despite all the evidence that you believe you have. You have misinterpretted the evidence. You say a zombie or a skeleton beheaded and you mistakenly thought that was evidence of a critical, when in fact it is only evidence that certain kinds of weapons do more damage to zombies and skeletons than certain other kinds. Unfortunately, I agree that this has been poorly implemented in D&D. I'd personally like to have zombies take only half damage from peircing and bludgeoning weapons.

As for vampires, they have certain vulnerabilities, but that doesn't mean that they are subject to critical hits. To implement there vulnerabilities fully, you need good called shot rules - and even the best of those can be more trouble than they are worth.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Vampires only have one vulnerable spot. Most critical blows wouldn't affect them any more than any other undead. Only criticals with a wooden stake that pierce the heart would have an added effect (and that only if you accept the hollywood vampire stereotype).

For those interested in this sort of vampire, see Sean K Reynolds' alternate vampire (on his site):

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/monsters/fleshboundvampire.html

 

[Kai Lord]

As far as the others go, neither zombies, nor skeletons, (nor for the most part vampires) are subject to critical hits despite all the evidence that you believe you have. You have misinterpretted the evidence. You say a zombie or a skeleton beheaded and you mistakenly thought that was evidence of a critical, when in fact it is only evidence that certain kinds of weapons do more damage

Go watch Night of the Living Dead. Report back when you learn what they had to do to kill the zombies.

 

[kreynolds]

Actually, in addition to their heart, vampires can be slain by beheading. Check out the Vorpal description in the DMG.

Unfortunately, Vorpal only works on a successful critical hit, and you can't score a successful critical hit on the undead type, thus Vorpal doesn't work at all.

The Mace of Smiting is an exception. It uses the critical rules to determine when it's power activates, even though you don't actually score a critical hit.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unfortunately, Vorpal only works on a successful critical hit, and you can't score a successful critical hit on the undead type, thus Vorpal doesn't work at all.

... then why do they bother pointing out that constructs and most undead aren't affected by the loss of their heads? It would appear they expect the Vorpal weapon to chop off the head, but to cause the creature no detriment.

The Mace of Smiting is an exception. It uses the critical rules to determine when it's power activates, even though you don't actually score a critical hit.

"... and any critical hit dealt to a construct completely destroys it..."

Doesn't go into detail about there being an exception - it could be argued that as constructs are not subject to criticals, one may never be dealt... except in cases where a non-core feat or class feature grants the ability to crit constructs.

But the text does seems to assume that a confirmed threat activates the power of the Mace of Smiting... just as the text of the Vorpal power seems to assume the same about confirmed threats on constructs and undead.

Now I'm wondering whether a Flaming Burst activates against a Mummy with the right rolls...

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

... then why do they bother pointing out that constructs and most undead aren't affected by the loss of their heads? It would appear they expect the Vorpal weapon to chop off the head, but to cause the creature no detriment.



"... and any critical hit dealt to a construct completely destroys it..."

Doesn't go into detail about there being an exception - it could be argued that as constructs are not subject to criticals, one may never be dealt... except in cases where a non-core feat or class feature grants the ability to crit constructs.

But the text does seems to assume that a confirmed threat activates the power of the Mace of Smiting... just as the text of the Vorpal power seems to assume the same about confirmed threats on constructs and undead.

Now I'm wondering whether a Flaming Burst activates against a Mummy with the right rolls...

-Hyp. [/B]

Weapon special abilities that are triggered on a critical, still trigger even if the creature you critical is not subject to critical hits. Basically the critical occured, but the creature ignores it.

A flaming burst weapon would still burst on a critical against an undead, even though the undead would not take the extra critical damage from the weapon itself.

 

[Xarlen]

Yes, but the Zombies in Night of the Living Dead A) Were not created by negative energy, B) Were being killed with called shots.

 

[kreynolds]

... then why do they bother pointing out that constructs and most undead aren't affected by the loss of their heads? It would appear they expect the Vorpal weapon to chop off the head, but to cause the creature no detriment.

Perhpaps that's another way of say, "Don't bother. It doesn't work."? By the way, where you been?

But as far as burst weapons go...

The “mace of smiting” states that it destroys a construct on a critical hit, but constructs are immune to critical hits. I presume this enchantment is meant to be an exception to the rule that constructs are immune to crits, but that raises other questions. If the mace wielder has the feat Improved Critical, does that improve the threat range to destroy a construct? What happens with other magical weapons with special effects on a critical hit? For example, does a “flaming burst longsword” burst for extra fire damage when you roll a critical vs. a creature immune to critical hits? Are critical immune creatures immune to the sonic burst from the “thundering” enchantment?

Smiting and disruption weapons use the critical rules for their special effects, even though undead and constructs are not subject to critical hits. The Improved Critical feat does not affect these weapons.

Burst weapons rely on confirmed critical hits. If the opponent is not subject to critical hits, burst weapons don't burst.

"Upon a successful critical hit", this is the verbage used by both Acidic Burst and Vorpal. This verabage does not qualify burst weapons to function against creatures immune to critical hits, thus it does not qualify Vorpal weapons to function against undead either.

 

[Hypersmurf]

[Perhaps that's another way of say, "Don't bother. It doesn't work."?

Doesn't fit the wording.

By the way, where you been?

Busy busy...

But as far as burst weapons go...

Okay, I can accept that... but...

Smiting and disruption weapons use the critical rules for their special effects...

Disruption weapons use critical rules? C'mon... where did he get that from?

-Hyp.