Undead and Feint

[mcgeedis]

I can't seem to locate in the SRD whether or not undead can be feinted. I was thinking of taking improved feint for my fighter/rogue, but since we are in an undead heavy campaign, I might forgo it.

Side note: I'll be getting a ring of Gravebane eventually, so my sneak attack will work against undead.

 

[Joker]

I would say, and I didn't check the rules for this, that if an undead can be lied to, it can be made to perceive that you're going one way but actually going another.

 

[Demoquin]

I remember hearing about only intelligent undead can be feinted. Not mindless thralls. Just my 2 cp.

 

[DungeonMaester]

I remember hearing about only intelligent undead can be feinted. Not mindless thralls. Just my 2 cp.

To some this would make sence, however bluffing is more then using words to fool your enemy, you are also using body language which enables you to bluff creatures and monsters that can normaly be bluffed. You cant use Diplomacy to say "I'll give you meat if you dont attack me" or Bluff to say "hey look..Steak over there!" To bluff though.

Its part of using skills in differnt ways.

---Rusty

 

[Knight Otu]

Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers. If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.
Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.
Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

It would appear that intelligent undead can be feinted with some difficulty, while non-intelligent undead can't be feinted.

 

[Notmousse]

With the most common undead (skeletons and zombies) I believe there may be no penalty if the base creature is a humanoid.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I was thinking of taking improved feint for my fighter/rogue, but since we are in an undead heavy campaign, I might forgo it.

In an undead heavy campaign, you should consider forgoing your rogue.

Side note: I'll be getting a ring of Gravebane eventually, so my sneak attack will work against undead.

Well, then again . . .

 

[mcgeedis]

With the most common undead (skeletons and zombies) I believe there may be no penalty if the base creature is a humanoid.

That's what I was thinking. Because technically, a humanoid would be described as standing upright, two arms, two legs and a head, right?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

That's what I was thinking. Because technically, a humanoid would be described as standing upright, two arms, two legs and a head, right?

That's roughly my thoughts on a humanoid. Of course you can't feint non-intelligent creatures so the undead has to have some sembalance of intelligence in order for you to feint against it.

Olaf the Stout

 

[nittanytbone]

A skeleton of a bugbear is NOT a humanoid. See the SRD, skeleton template:
"The creature’s type changes to undead."

So even if you had a skeleton with intelligence, you'd take the -4 penalty. A typical skeleton has INT 0 though, so your feint just fails.

Even, say, a ghoul, which has two arms and two legs and a head (humanoid shaped), does NOT have the humanoid type. It is also undead. So you'd take a -4 penalty.