D&D 5E Undead, how charming...

Fabio Andrea Rossi · Sep 23, 2014

Dear all, a question comes to my troubled mind after my first 5E session with the final rules: is undead immunity to mind affecting spells and effects gone?

The party bard used the cantrip Vicious Mockery against a skeleton and while the description of the cantrip states this is basically a mind effect I think under the new rules it should work. Not only, it seems that Skeletons and Zombies are not even immune to that charming guile your trusted wizard can cast, so the unspeakable may have happened, that is...

Can you charm an undead?

Seems the answer is yes to me, probably under the same considerations that brought those sneaky rogues to sneak attacking my favourite monster kind.

To say it all, it is not that wrong once you think about it, but I only have the PHB and the basic DM rules so I may be missing something in the MM...can this happen, from a strict rules standpoint?

Falling Icicle · Sep 23, 2014

Not all undead are immune to charm. Some are, such as banshees and ghosts.

Pickles JG · Sep 23, 2014

Fabio Andrea Rossi said:
To say it all, it is not that wrong once you think about it, but I only have the PHB and the basic DM rules so I may be missing something in the MM...can this happen, from a strict rules standpoint?

It's on a case by case basis under their condition immunities but many can't be charmed. Zombies & Wights can...
Flameskulls, Ghouls and Ghosts can't

Fabio Andrea Rossi · Sep 23, 2014

Thanks for the clarification...still seems a bit odd to me the concept of a charmed skeleton but it may have funny results B-)

Falling Icicle · Sep 23, 2014

Fabio Andrea Rossi said:
Thanks for the clarification...still seems a bit odd to me the concept of a charmed skeleton but it may have funny results

What's even more funny is an exhausted skeleton. Poor things get overworked.

The_Gneech · Sep 23, 2014

Hmm... a charmed skeleton is kind of a bizarre notion; it implies a level of 'personality' that I don't normally associate with them. Normally I pretty much think of skeletons as being mindless, and controlling the undead being the province of clerics and/or necromancers rather than bards.

Must ponder.

-The Gneech

Fabio Andrea Rossi · Sep 23, 2014

On the other hand they are able to understand commands, chase their prey and so on, all in virtue of some magic...thus it may have sense that other "mind" influencing magic can interfere with that.

Kind of "hacking" their animation magic...this at least is how I'll consider it in order not to suffer psichic damage myself figuring out how the damn thing is possible

Yes, the same is true for constructs but they usually are more powerful and thus bound by stronger magic that may be harder to "hack".

Because you can't charm a construct these days, can you? Someone tell me you can't

jadrax · Sep 23, 2014

Another wrinkle is that some spells will not effect an Undead target anyway. Charm Person only works on humanoids. While Charm Monster... doesn't exist...

Reynard · Sep 23, 2014

Fabio Andrea Rossi said:
On the other hand they are able to understand commands, chase their prey and so on, all in virtue of some magic...thus it may have sense that other "mind" influencing magic can interfere with that.

Kind of "hacking" their animation magic...this at least is how I'll consider it in order not to suffer psichic damage myself figuring out how the damn thing is possible

Yes, the same is true for constructs but they usually are more powerful and thus bound by stronger magic that may be harder to "hack".

Because you can't charm a construct these days, can you? Someone tell me you can't

I like it -- Enchanter as mind-hacker! The threads and braids of magic are like code, and someone skilled enough and untie them without causing a complete shutdown and reboot (although i suppose sleep could be a "forced shut down" of sorts). This implies all sorts of fun stuff. Must consider this further...