undead immune to unconsciousness?

[unan oranis]

Are undead immune to the effect of unconsciousness?

Would the rogue "knockout" power work on an undead?

I couldn't find any monster type immunities, is that done away with in 4e?

I've just assumed until now that undead are immune to the sleep spell and poison damage... yet I couldn't find it actually written down anywhere.

Is it in the DMG somewhere?

 

[Caliban]

Are undead immune to the effect of unconsciousness?

Would the rogue "knockout" power work on an undead?

I couldn't find any monster type immunities, is that done away with in 4e?

I've just assumed until now that undead are immune to the sleep spell and poison damage... yet I couldn't find it actually written down anywhere.

Is it in the DMG somewhere?

No. There are very few immunities based on creature type anymore. Any immunities the creatue has will be in it's stat block.

Here is the the entry for the Undead keyword from the Monster Manual:

Undead [Keyword] ​

: Undead are not living creatures; spells and effects that specifically target living creatures do not work against them. Most undead have resistance to necrotic damage, are immune to poison, and are vulnerable to radiant damage. Undead do not need to breathe or sleep.​

Note that the Sleep spell doesn't actually put you to sleep - it magically makes you unconcious. And undead aren't immune to sleep effects for that matter, they just don't need to sleep.



​

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Monster Manual Glossary notes that "Most undead have resistance to necrotic damage, are immune to poison, and are vulnerable to radiant damage. Undead do not need to breathe or sleep."

The "most" means we need to check the individual monster... so if we look at the Skeleton stat blocks, we see "Immune disease, poison; Resist 10 necrotic; Vulnerable 5 radiant". Slaughter Wights have "Immune disease, poison; Resist 20 necrotic; Vulnerable 10 radiant".

But since the Sleep spell imposes unconsciousness, "do not need to sleep" is no defence against it. The Wizard with Sleep or the Rogue with Knockout work just fine.

I could see a DM ruling that "do not need to breathe" protects against the Rogue 'Garrote Grip' power, but purely as written, the power takes no account of whether you need to breathe.

-Hyp.

 

[IanArgent]

The designers were fairly clear in various sources that a) blanket immunities are gone and b) everything is in the stat block. Base rule is that everything works on everything, and each individual opponent will note if it has specific immunities.

 

[Engilbrand]

Also, remember that "don't need to" is not the same as "can't". Just like with Warforged. I have a Warforged that talks about wanting to get some food. One of the players said, "Warforged don't drink!" My response was, "Incorrect. Warforged don't NEED to drink."
4th doesn't play well with simulationism. "Why would a skeleton be able to be knocked unconscious? He's not alive." or "How do you poison a zombie? His blood isn't flowing." don't make sense for this edition. The answer is, "They don't want people to have abilities that are worthless against a certain type of monster." I actually recommend never asking yourself if something would make sense. That's not the point of 4th edition. It's to have fun, be cool, and kill shi... stuff. And then loot the hell out of them.

 

[Eldorian]

4th doesn't play well with simulationism.

No worse than previous editions.

"Why would a skeleton be able to be knocked unconscious? He's not alive."

How can a skeleton be conscious? It doesn't have a nervous system. It doesn't have muscles to move it, either.

or "How do you poison a zombie? His blood isn't flowing." don't make sense for this edition.

How do you make a zombie?


See? It's freaking magic. You can't explain it, and you can't reason why it works. If magic can animate skeletons, then magic can deanimate them.

 

[Serphet]

undead keyword as per MM 283

...
Most undead have resistance to necrotic damage, and are immune to poison , and are vulnerable to radiant damage
...

all undead in the MM are also immune to disease.

they aren't tying your hands, just giving you a path.

 

[Engilbrand]

To clarify: I wasn't dissing 4e. I love it. My points about undead were absolutely in favor of the 4e idea that things don't need to make sense.

 

[Benly]

See? It's freaking magic. You can't explain it, and you can't reason why it works. If magic can animate skeletons, then magic can deanimate them.

An important thing to remember is that it doesn't have to be magic to work. This line of logic brings with it the very real risk of indirectly nerfing martial characters by saying it's logical for magical abilities to work on a given monster but not for martial abilities to.

(The rogue, incidentally, "knocks out" a skeleton by cracking the spinal connection to the magical gem in its braincase so badly that it takes a few rounds for the linkage to be re-established. Don't get too wrapped up in a single description and you don't even need to handwave things.)

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well ... err ... there are these vampires in a movieverse that can drown and have babies.
Although Underworld is a terrible movie, it's a "different edition, different rules" so why not?