Undead Immunity to Necromatic Effects???

[Oni]

Ok, this is something that has me a little confused. The MM says that undead are immune to necromantic effects, what exactly does this mean? There are several necromantic spells that are supposed to specifically affect undead, so what am I missing, I feel like I've overlooked some obvious bit of information somewhere.

 

[Janos Audron]

I asked this once, but nobody had a satisfying answer...

I have a bit of a related question: How is it possible that Undead are immune to effects that require a fort save unless it affects objects, and there are spells like Devastate Undead (LoD) and items like Arrow of Undead Slaying and Weapon of Disruption?

 

[gfunk]

It's not explicitly stated in the rules (as far as I can see) but I think you are safe with the following ruling.

Necromantic spells do not affect undead with the following exceptions:

1) if they affect objects
2) if they specifically affect undead

 

[Janos Audron]

Are there any necromantic effects that target objects? I very much doubt that...

So, the ruling would be: Undead are immune to Necromantic effects, unless they specifically target Undead...

I don't know for certain, but I am pretty sure that all necromantic effects that do not specifically target Undead, exclude them from the descriton (e.g. Horrid Wilting, Finger of Death and Vampiric Touch all require living subjects).

So, all necromantic effects that cannot affect Undead do not include Undead in the target, while all those that could target them by the ruling already do. Either this "Undead are immune to Necromantic effects" thing is just plain silly or a leftover from 2nd edition maybe?

 

[Shayuri]

My guess is what they meant was to say that the undead are immune to DEATH effects...but whoever typed it made an oopsie and made the phrase overgeneralized.

 

[James McMurray]

How is it possible that Undead are immune to effects that require a fort save unless it affects objects, and there are spells like Devastate Undead (LoD) and items like Arrow of Undead Slaying and Weapon of Disruption?

The undead immunities specifically states that they are not immune to effects which target undead.

 

[Oni]

The undead immunities specifically states that they are not immune to effects which target undead.

That seems logical, but I can't find it in the rule books, could you point me to the specific passage?

 

[hong]

I asked this once, but nobody had a satisfying answer...

I have a bit of a related question: How is it possible that Undead are immune to effects that require a fort save unless it affects objects, and there are spells like Devastate Undead (LoD) and items like Arrow of Undead Slaying and Weapon of Disruption?

Read it as "undead are immune to effects that require a Fort save, unless stated otherwise".

Is that satisfying enough for you?

 

[James McMurray]

Well, now that I look, I can't find it anywhere either. However, specific rules always override general rules. If you prefer to make undead immune to all fortitude saves though, go for it. Just know that the cleric with the mace of disruption may be a bit ticked off.

 

[Janos Audron]

Yeah, but all the liches and vampires will start worshipping you...

And Hong, that is specific enough, but not what it says. I think I can live with Shayuri's view though...