Undead taxonomy

[Sir Brennen]

Per W&M (pg 50):

If given enough power, the animus can rouse the body in the absence of a soul. It might even be able to function without the body. Such power can come from necromantic magic, another corrupting supernatural influence at the place of death or interment, or the connection of the Shadowfell to a locale. Strong desires, beliefs, or emotions on the part of the deceased can also tap the magic of the world to give the animus power.

I'm not seeing any implication that there's such a thing as undead without animus. It is explicitly stated that necro magic and Shadow simply boost the power of the animus to create an undead creature, but do not replace the animus, as suggested earlier in this thread.

I think DreamChaser's list has it right. Trying to break things down into every combination of body/soul/animus I think is making things more complex than they need to be, and is a good example of what the designer's have been referring to as unnecessary symmetry.

Another observation: "negative" energy no longer seems to have a place in 4E metaphysical terminology, tho it's cropping up in this thread. W&M uses "necrotic" energy which I think helps clarify it as an power source related to death.

It does make one wonder if the designers explored the concepts behind animated objects, though. Are they being filled with "borrowed" animus from the world, or tapping into their elemental essence? Can a pile of bones be animated as an object, and how would that differ from them being animated through necromancy?

 

[xechnao]

If you think animus as the clues one has(intelligence) and soul as the insight(wisdom) one has, skeletons should have soul and no animus. OTOH, vampires should have both.

A skeleton can't change while a vampire can.

All undead should have a wisdom (soul).

Constructs should have no insight or soul OTOH.

 

[MaelStorm]

From my study in the field of Esoterica: (sidenote)
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Animus = Breath of Life (Prana, Chi, or Etheric Body)
It is also synonymous with the Nephesch of the Kaballah (or animal soul). It is associated with the ninth sephirah. It is the desire body.

So the animus can be associated with the lower astral and etheric plane.

Or it is the corridor between the astral plane and the physical plane if you prefer.
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But I could be wrong.

The "Libris Mortis" was a very good book IMO.
The table found in the Manifestations of Undeath in the first chapter of the "Libris Mortis" was very useful.

Pardon my ignorance, but will there be an animus and soul related with undead creatures in 4E? Or is it just a cool idea of yourself?

 

[NaturalZero]

Per W&M (pg 50):I'm not seeing any implication that there's such a thing as undead without animus.

Thats what i gleaned from the book as well. Regardless of what the dictionary or kaballah says, the text seems to indicate that in 4E "animus" is a simple, animating force. If an undead creature moves, it must have an animus.

 

[Lackhand]

If you think animus as the clues one has(intelligence) and soul as the insight(wisdom) one has, skeletons should have soul and no animus. OTOH, vampires should have both.

A skeleton can't change while a vampire can.

All undead should have a wisdom (soul).

Constructs should have no insight or soul OTOH.

If you think of the animus this way, you're thinking of it wrong

The animus in W&M is the stuff that makes the other stuff go -- body + animus = shambling around with various levels of animal cunning and reflex memory; body alone (no animus) = inert lump of protein and calcium.
Soul + animus = ghost, spirit, or shade of some variety, exactly as malevolent as its degree of shadow taint (usually quite high!); soul alone (no animus) = abstract memories and floating intelligence, no ability to affect the world.
Animus alone? Not really a thing they touched on. I'd assume it was fairly useless, glue without anything to glue together.

Body and soul and animus? Life, or a mockery thereof, again depending on level of shadow taint. I'm pretty sure you can now go from alive to "undead" without, strictly speaking, passing through death. Which I'm perfectly okay with.

 

[MaelStorm]

Thats what i gleaned from the book as well. Regardless of what the dictionary or kaballah says, the text seems to indicate that in 4E "animus" is a simple, animating force. If an undead creature moves, it must have an animus.

Ok, thanks for your answer.

EDIT: I think I will grab a copy of the W&M in the coming weeks.

 

[Incenjucar]

Animus alone is things like shadows and wraiths. They're basically unliving animal instinct and perhaps memory, but they can't grow and learn like a shade or a ghost may be able to.

 

[Crashy75]

I didn't realize D&D defined the animus. Very good then. I still like the idea of an Undead taxonomical project.

 

[Simm]

My interpritation of animus is similar to Decarte's animal spirits. Following Cartisian dualism peopla have a body made of physical matter, a mind or soul made of a substance entirely apart from physical matter and animal spirits which coexist with both the physical and mental realms. According to Descarte Plants had body but niether animal spirt nor mind, animal had body and animal spirit but not mind, and human possessed all three.

So:
Body: physical pressence
Animal spirit: The ability to move a physical body either by chanalling the desire of the mind or through instictual reaction
Mind: Cognesent mental activity

A ghost could be a creature of mind alone, it has no ability to affect the physical world unless it uses magic, or possesses a creature (hijacking its animal spirit). A poltergeist, on the other hand, would need animal spirit in order to affect the world but would not necessarily have mind, if it acted purely instictually.

 

[xechnao]

If you think of the animus this way, you're thinking of it wrong

The animus in W&M is the stuff that makes the other stuff go -- body + animus = shambling around with various levels of animal cunning and reflex memory; body alone (no animus) = inert lump of protein and calcium.
Soul + animus = ghost, spirit, or shade of some variety, exactly as malevolent as its degree of shadow taint (usually quite high!); soul alone (no animus) = abstract memories and floating intelligence, no ability to affect the world.
Animus alone? Not really a thing they touched on. I'd assume it was fairly useless, glue without anything to glue together.

Body and soul and animus? Life, or a mockery thereof, again depending on level of shadow taint. I'm pretty sure you can now go from alive to "undead" without, strictly speaking, passing through death. Which I'm perfectly okay with.

So what about body+soul?? Who is this fella?!