D&D 5E Undead Templates: Unless I missed them, we really need these.

[Corpsetaker]

Say it again for the people in the back. SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK.



This needs to be posted in every single "I want XYZ splat/class/build/whatsit" thread. This needs to be a sticky which pops up every time someone types the word "Wizards needs to do..." in these forums.

THANK YOU.

Cheers,

Bob

www.r-p-davis.com

How about no?

 

[Corpsetaker]

Isn't the Dracolich a template? And half-dragon? They exist. They're just not numerous.

And it would be trivially easy to give ballpark guidelines for how a template would raise CR.


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Exactly!

 

[Corpsetaker]

For those of you who respond by saying you don't want more mechanics or templates:

DON'T USE THEM

Some of us would actually like to have them and would use them all the time.

 

[Kabouter Games]

Some of us would actually like to have them and would use them all the time.

So make 'em. That's my point. Embrace the DIY.

 

[Corpsetaker]

So make 'em. That's my point. Embrace the DIY.

No, that's why I pay money for others to do it.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

No, that's why I pay money for others to do it.

So, make a list of what templates you want, and I'll give you a cost estimate of what you can pay me to make them for you?

 

[Mouseferatu]

So, the thing about the existing templates is that they are all very simple changes that--and here's the important part--do not alter the creature's CR.

It's not simple to state how a template would alter CR in 5E, because CR is based on a lot of numbers that simply don't translate to a standard template. Like, average damage over three rounds? That's going to be a much more dramatic change between CR 3 and 4 than between CR 15 and 16. A single +1 CR template can't accommodate both.

I'm not necessarily saying it can't be done, but I think it would be a lot harder and more complex than people realize, and it would still require some math and calculations on the DM's part--which, in many cases, would make the template no simpler than just making alterations by the monster creation rules.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I'm not necessarily saying it can't be done, but I think it would be a lot harder and more complex than people realize, and it would still require some math and calculations on the DM's part--which, in many cases, would make the template no simpler than just making alterations by the monster creation rules.

I think (I'm not sure, since I haven't conducted experiments to test my hypothesis) that the designer of a template could do a fair amount of the math for the DM, effectively establishing something along the lines of "This template has no effect upon the base creature's CR if the base creature is CR X or greater" (of course, that then assumes that only one template is ever being applied to any given creature, since multiple templates that each wouldn't affect CR normally could do so when combined).

Really, I think that just highlights why the designers didn't take an approach to templates that tries to tell you the effect upon CR beyond that you'll have to recalculate it - there are too many opportunities for the design to make statements that aren't universally true, the user to assume they are universally true, and be upset with the results because of it.

 

[Xeviat]

So, the thing about the existing templates is that they are all very simple changes that--and here's the important part--do not alter the creature's CR.

It's not simple to state how a template would alter CR in 5E, because CR is based on a lot of numbers that simply don't translate to a standard template. Like, average damage over three rounds? That's going to be a much more dramatic change between CR 3 and 4 than between CR 15 and 16. A single +1 CR template can't accommodate both.

I'm not necessarily saying it can't be done, but I think it would be a lot harder and more complex than people realize, and it would still require some math and calculations on the DM's part--which, in many cases, would make the template no simpler than just making alterations by the monster creation rules.

Hp increases by 15 per CR, and damage increases by 6 per CR (if you end up increasing CR by 4 or more, you'll need to give some more AC and Attack eventually). Alternatively, +2 AC and +2 to Hit increases CR by 1. Flight counts as +2 AC. Other features count as X AC or Attack, and some count as Y HP.


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[Mouseferatu]

Hp increases by 15 per CR, and damage increases by 6 per CR (if you end up increasing CR by 4 or more, you'll need to give some more AC and Attack eventually). Alternatively, +2 AC and +2 to Hit increases CR by 1. Flight counts as +2 AC. Other features count as X AC or Attack, and some count as Y HP.

Okay, my bad. I misremembered; I thought the damage output was less regular than that.

Hit points, however, are only 15 per CR in a fixed range. At less than CR 1 or more than CR 19, they change. I guess one could say that templates are only good at CRs 1-19 and you'd still accommodate the majority of uses, but... I dunno. It still strikes me as a little clunky.

That could just be me, though.