underwhelmed with Neverwinter Campaign Setting

[Retreater]

My gaming store shrink wraps their books (even the used ones) so I couldn't get a good look at the contents. I guess I should have looked on the WotC website. However, I don't know if those previews would have given a good feel of the book. The individual sections aren't bad; I just don't think there is enough "glue" holding those sections together.

My first warning should have been its presence in the Used Bin within a week of its release (it had been there for $14 for a couple of weeks before I bought it).

I don't mean to be a jerk about this or insulting to the writers of the NWCS. (I know that Ari and some of the other writers do come by here and read these posts.)

My main issue is that for $40 retail, the book should offer something more substantial to the DM than plot ideas and inspiration. Even if it's 200 pages of plot ideas and inspiration, that's not enough considering that I am going to have to build a campaign from the ground up. Here are some other $40 D&D 4E products to compare: Dark Sun Campaign Setting, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Eberron Campaign Setting. There is no way that this book has a fraction of the utility that any of the three above had.

There are no maps of numerous locations including Thay, Helm's Hold, Castle Never, etc. And that's time intensive work to draw out maps, particularly those that the authors know are going to be combat areas by their own description.

The closest thing we have to an encounter is a single skill challenge that is detailed.

I've read someone above comparing this to Hammerfast. That's what I think when I see this. It should have been a $15 paperback.

 

[Dead Scribe]

My first warning should have been its presence in the Used Bin within a week of its release (it had been there for $14 for a couple of weeks before I bought it).

Um, weird? The book hasn't even officially been out for three full weeks yet.

I've read someone above comparing this to Hammerfast. That's what I think when I see this. It should have been a $15 paperback.

Seriously? I think this is disingenuous. I don't see nearly the need for maps that you do, but that's at least a fair criticism. Suggesting that the book doesn't have more utility for building a campaign than Hammerfast is risible though--I've already gone into detail as to why.

Hammerfast and Neverwinter are both good products, and it's fair to like Hammerfast better. But their scope and density of detail is totally different, so directly comparing prices is unfair. Plus uh, how are you complaining about the price value when you say you paid less for Neverwinter than you would for a brand new copy of Hammerfast?

 

[Kzach]

My main issue is that for $40 retail, the book should offer something more substantial to the DM than plot ideas and inspiration.

So you want everything done for you. And then you'd complain it wasn't good enough.

The best books of 1e and 2e were primarily plot ideas and inspiration.

There is no way that this book has a fraction of the utility that any of the three above had.

You're right, I'd argue it has significantly more.

There are no maps of numerous locations including Thay, Helm's Hold, Castle Never, etc. And that's time intensive work to draw out maps, particularly those that the authors know are going to be combat areas by their own description.

There are already gazillions of maps of FR. And again, you seem to want to have everything done for you. This is a time-intensive game that requires a significant investment of effort. If you don't like that, then there is always MtG.

I've read someone above comparing this to Hammerfast. That's what I think when I see this. It should have been a $15 paperback.

There have already been presented numerous reasons why this is a stupid comparison.

 

[Imaro]

I'm afraid you're mistaken--this is not true. Most of the location writeups are significantly longer than a paragraph. A few are that short, but most are closer to a page or a page and a half. Some are a few pages long. They almost all have a lot more detail than any given feature in Hammerfast.

It doesn't appear that you purchased the book, so it's understandable that you probably haven't done much more than skim it. But your representation of the book isn't accurate.

After looking some more at the book (I do actually own it... just trying not to read it because my son and I are playing in this season's encounters), you are right Dead Scribe, it does in fact have more depth than Hammerfast... I'm still not convinced it's a better deal at $40 then Hammerfast's $14... but I do concede the fact that it goes into more depth about it's area.

 

[Imaro]

$40?

It's $25 on Amazon and you lucky Americanos get free shipping. Just count yourself lucky you don't live on the arse-end of the earth and have to pay $62 RRP for it ($35 shipped from Amazon).

How is this relevant? I used the normal pricing but I could just as easily use the Amazon pricing for both... $26.37 vs. $10.91 and still feel that Hammerfast is a better deal for the price.

 

[Imaro]

Hammerfast and Neverwinter are both good products, and it's fair to like Hammerfast better. But their scope and density of detail is totally different, so directly comparing prices is unfair. Plus uh, how are you complaining about the price value when you say you paid less for Neverwinter than you would for a brand new copy of Hammerfast?

Eh, I agreed that Neverwinter goes into more depth and broadness but they are essentially the same type of product. If you have no need or find the added depth and broadness that Neverwinter has not useful or worth the extra cost... why is it unfair to compare the two pricewise?

 

[Imaro]

There have already been presented numerous reasons why this is a stupid comparison.

Could you cite those numerous reasons because I just read through the entire thread and it seems there is only one reason... Neverwinter gives you more for more money, even thopugh they are the same type of product and serve the same purpose in-game. Which is kinda like saying you can't compare two adventures if they have different page counts, which IMO, seems stupid in and of itself.

 

[S'mon]

There are no maps of numerous locations including Thay, Helm's Hold, Castle Never, etc. And that's time intensive work to draw out maps, particularly those that the authors know are going to be combat areas by their own description.

The lack of maps was the most annoying thing to me. The Thay stuff in particular is barely useable without a map to give it context.

 

[S'mon]

You're right, I'd argue it has significantly more.

You haven't even read the book yet!

 

[Retreater]

So you want everything done for you. And then you'd complain it wasn't good enough.

Not true. I've pointed out several 4E era books that I've enjoyed, including the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. I also loved the Gamma World releases. The difference is that we have a lukewarm quasi-setting book of a rather vanilla setting that I don't find very inspiring. This is my opinion, and it's not "stupid" or wrong anymore than your opinion that NWCS is good is wrong. Perhaps I'm just not a FR fan and it's taken NWCS's release to make me realize that.

There are already gazillions of maps of FR. And again, you seem to want to have everything done for you. This is a time-intensive game that requires a significant investment of effort. If you don't like that, then there is always MtG.

There are not gazillions of maps of the areas described in the NWCS. Or if there were, the authors should refer the reader to those sources ... which are more than likely Out of Print, unavailable for online purchase, and for different editions of the game. Since this product is intended for newer DMs, the authors should assume that the DM doesn't have access to "gazillions of maps." In fact, the new DM angle makes it all the more important to set up encounters, maps, and to lay out story arcs.
I do expect to have a significant amount of work done for me for a $40 retail purchase. I would rather have 10 locations filled out in vivid detail with interesting plots and characters than the 100 or so in NWCS. Instead of trying to cover 100s of miles, the authors should have narrowed in even more to do about 25 miles. Detail small ruins, an enemy keep, a few small villages, etc. That would be a much more valuable resource to me.
And Kzach, if you feel the need to respond to me again, attempt to be more respectful. Making broad assumptions about my tastes, telling me that I should find a different game to play, and calling my ideas "stupid" is the sort of rudeness that I won't tolerate.
I have a daily power left, and I'm not afraid to use it.