Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana:Are they revealing limitations in the 5th edition system?

[alienux]

It's not showing any limits of 5E at all, but I would like to see some options for classes as opposed to alternate options of existing classes.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think they are dancing on a delicate line between the conceptual versatility of the pre-WotC days and the "every slight variation on an idea must have its own crunch" ethos of 3e/4e.

Consigning character concepts to subclasses only serves to limit character options, not expand them. Making a horse rider subclass for a ranger, for example, implies that a fighter, wizard, or rogue can't fill that role.

It's part of the reason we are seeing identical concepts across different class options; a "scout" righter, a "scout" rogue, and so forth. Making "scout" a subclass means that if you want a "scout" with a different basic skills set, you need to have a different subclass for each class to do it. And I think that approach is pretty silly.

There is a big difference from saying "here is a convenient way to be horse rider" than "there is only one way to be a horse rider." The tone of everything that WotC has produces for 5e suggests the former, and I haven't seen anything to suggest the latter, but if you can provide some evidence, I would like to see it.

 

[hawkeyefan]

My argument would be that Unearthed Arcana is the perfect time to not be cautious and just let it all out for us to judge.

While I can understand your point, whatever they choose to test has to be something that they are willing to actually put into the game. So there are going to be some inherent limitations on the new mechanics that they are willing to introduce, even if it is in a playtest that is not final.

Why playtest something that won't wind up in the game?

 

[jmucchiello]

We are not being bombarded with subclasses. There are no more than 3 or 4 subclasses per class. The phb has 2 or 3 per class (other than cleric and wizard), so the number of new subclasses is probably pretty good for a crunch book with a few new classes (psionics, artificer, ranger v2, etc) and 30+ subclasses for the original classes. Plus "spells" for the new classes. That still leaves 100+ pages for other stuff, whatever that might be.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using EN World mobile app

 

[Imaro]

Something I've noticed with most of the Unearthed Arcana's is they seem to running out of design room. We are getting several classes doing essentially the same thing but only in very minor ways. I'm seeing a less class system and a more broad system coming into play because class niche is slowly being taken away with each new Arcana. I think I've noticed it more with the martial classes than the spellcasters.

So your issue is classes doing the same thing in variable ways? Exactly what niche is being taken away because with backgrounds and feats it's pretty easy to cross over into another classes niche... of course I view this as a bonus for the system.

I would like to see them experiment more with "new" mechanics than giving us 5 different ways to make the same character. Why haven't they done more with the fighter's maneuver system? I mean they are playtest articles so I want to see some bold new mechanics being tested instead of the same old boring "safe" stuff we keep getting?

Wait...what?? Ok I'm getting confused. So you want new mechanics... or do you want them to come up with 5 different ways to use BM maneuvers, Which isn't a new mechanic. What exactly is your issue again?

Could this be a limitation with the system as a whole? Could it be a creativity limitation? It really reminds me of 4th edition where the only thing separated some powers was a shift instead of a push etc....

Could what be a limitation with the system? You're bemoaning them not giving you more new mechanics and then you also seem to be bemoaning the fact that they aren't using a pre-existing mechanic (BM maneuvers) in different ways... so what exactly is the issue?

For the record... no I don't think it's a limitation with the system or a creativity limitation... I do think most of the broad archetypes are covered by the overarching class and thus sub-classes are bound to be restrained in

 

[Guest 6801328]

Short answer: no.

I would also point out that UA sub-classes are not official changes to the system. They are testing out a bunch of ideas, some of which might become official.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Wow.

Three years of complaints due to WotC not putting out more stuff.

Now they're prepping to put out more stuff and more complaints that it's not the "right" stuff.

If I was Mike and the gang, I'd be all like "You know what? F- ALL Y'ALL, YOU UNGRATEFUL LITTLE..."

 

[Parmandur]

It's not showing any limits of 5E at all, but I would like to see some options for classes as opposed to alternate options of existing classes.

Well, we have two in process at least: beyond Artificer and Mystic, though, unlikely to see any new Classes anytime soon. Subclasses sre flexible enough to cover most archetypes, really.

 

[Hathorym]

UA is a classic example of "darned if you do, darned if you don't" People want options, so they place unofficial playtest options out there, and then people complain there are too many options, even though they are unofficial, or the wrong unofficial options to playtest. All the while we see a post a week decrying the lack of official options, or official options that are not up to the standards of the people complaining.

So far, two unofficial options have been converted into official options, that I can currently recall (swashbuckler rogue and storm sorcerer). If anything, recent UAs show a breadth of design philosophies and mechanical ideas rather than a weakness with the system.

Additionally, I've seen complaints about there being two "scout" subclasses, as if it is a grand betrayal to gamers to change direction for a subclass with a specific flavor. Again, since the UA is a selection of unoffical playtest material, it doesn't show anything. Most likely they are attempting to determine the best class chassis to hang the scout concept upon. It does not show weakness, it shows a willingness to analyze data, accept criticism, adjust design phiosophy, and allow their audience to access some unoffical playtest material.

Unofficial Playtest Material.

Unearthed Arcana is Unoffical Playtest Material

UAIUPM
UAIUPM
UAIUPM

 

[Corpsetaker]

Wow. Three years of complaints due to WotC not putting out more stuff. Now they're prepping to put out more stuff and more complaints that it's not the "right" stuff. If I was Mike and the gang, I'd be all like "You know what? F- ALL Y'ALL, YOU UNGRATEFUL LITTLE..."

This is cute and all but I've never asked for more mechanics before. I have always asked for more DM material.