Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana October 2017: Fiendish Options

Hawk Diesel · Oct 12, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
So, if...purely hypothetically...I described your forum posts as 'moronic', you would understand I was saying it about your writing and not about you?

I'll have to remember that.

As I seem to recall, you sorta already have (or at least implied it) in a previous post attacking me for a criticism I had of the work of a professional. And guess what? It's not the first time, and probably won't be the last. And also, some of those times when people called me out, they were absolutely right and provided constructive ways for me to improve my idea or direction. And sometimes I listened, other times I disagreed. That's what I risk by putting my thoughts out for the world to digest. You don't have to agree, I'm not asking you too. But this work is specifically created in order to gauge public opinion and feedback, and if I feel strongly negative about it and I make that known, then there is a chance this is not the level of work WotC lowers itself to and continues to challenge themselves and strive for better. Yea, I was harsh, but I supported my argument. It was not without basis or merit. And maybe my voice is the minority, in which case cool, WotC will publish garbage like this in their paid products and they will make money, but not mine.

Elfcrusher said:
Ah. So, in other words, it's ok that you denigrated them...I mean, their work...because you also gave them some valuable tips. For free, no less.

That's what feedback is. Sometimes people sugar coat it in nicer language to prevent hurt feelings, other times it's more directed and pointed for emphasis. Given this is one of the few times I have even had comments I felt worth writing and posting regarding UA, I think that says a lot. And also, let's not forget that while this material is free it doesn't mean WotC doesn't benefit from it. This is market research and crowd sourced playtesting so WotC can have an idea of what people will pay for. And if this is any indication of their intended future direction, I want no part of it and want them to know it in the strongest terms possible to prevent them from trying to package and sell garbage. WotC puts UA out in the world exactly for the purpose of knowing how I and the rest of the gaming community feel about new potential mechanics. So forgive me if my words regarding my enjoyment or lack of enjoyment of a particular piece of work, by professionals seeking feedback to guide future design decisions to make money from people like us, whose work I generally enjoy and admire, seemed to hurt your feelings.

Edit: Actually reread your initial post on this matter directed at me, where you implied that I was too simple to understand a document made about a make believe dice game where the rules contantly change and the points don't matter. So yea, I see where you draw the line. If someone says something you don't like, it's ok to immediately in your words "denigrate" them by suggesting I don't understand what I'm talking about. Where you could have actually practiced what you preach by engaging in discussion about the specific points I made and the reasons for the labels I used that you seem to disagree with, you instead chose to belittle me and my argument as if I'm a child and wouldn't be able to follow your inherent wisdom. But God forbid if someone says something negative about the work product of some big shot you care about. Thems fightin' words!

And with that, I'm done derailing this thread, as this is way off-topic. If you care to continue this, you can find me in PMs. Or you can block me. Frankly either one works for me.

Mephista · Oct 12, 2017

So, I must say that I do like most of the tiefling things. It would have been nice to see some that don't have spells. I don't like the spy and criminal races being so close (or the spy having the bluntly obvious Thaumaturgy spell). I would have loved to see Fernia to have some fire magic - that's her level's forte. I get not changing the elemental resistance - devils are renowned for being immune to fire on all levels, including Leviticus' ice devils. But, other than nitpicking over what benefits each race grants? I'm actually rather stoked about the idea behind each one. Glyssa the criminal mastermind. Fernia the socialite. Raziel the paladin. And so on. Each idea behind the eight new subraces are solid, and I highly approve. Looking forwards to messing with a new tiefling rogue or the paladin of tyranny.

That said. I'm actually a bit interested in tying all this into the racial feats we saw earlier. There were some that ran off Constitution and got resistance to cold and stuff. So, when combined with these new subraces, it actually seems to combine into some interesting devil types, and I'm actually thinking of how this could work. I'd love to see nine new racial feats for the tieflings with this on the table.

The cults are pretty solid, and I do like them. At least for the devils. I've never gotten behind the idea of abyss cults - for the most part, these are basically a mix of pseudo-gods (minotaurs, etc). I can see Orcus getting a cult of necromancers going on, or Grazz't with his satan thing going on, but the rest I just never understood. Cultural corruption is the devil's stick - demons are more in-your-face types.

cbwjm · Oct 12, 2017

Mephista said:
So, I must say that I do like most of the tiefling things. It would have been nice to see some that don't have spells. I don't like the spy and criminal races being so close (or the spy having the bluntly obvious Thaumaturgy spell). I would have loved to see Fernia to have some fire magic - that's her level's forte. I get not changing the elemental resistance - devils are renowned for being immune to fire on all levels, including Leviticus' ice devils. But, other than nitpicking over what benefits each race grants? I'm actually rather stoked about the idea behind each one. Glyssa the criminal mastermind. Fernia the socialite. Raziel the paladin. And so on. Each idea behind the eight new subraces are solid, and I highly approve. Looking forwards to messing with a new tiefling rogue or the paladin of tyranny.

That said. I'm actually a bit interested in tying all this into the racial feats we saw earlier. There were some that ran off Constitution and got resistance to cold and stuff. So, when combined with these new subraces, it actually seems to combine into some interesting devil types, and I'm actually thinking of how this could work. I'd love to see nine new racial feats for the tieflings with this on the table.

The cults are pretty solid, and I do like them. At least for the devils. I've never gotten behind the idea of abyss cults - for the most part, these are basically a mix of pseudo-gods (minotaurs, etc). I can see Orcus getting a cult of necromancers going on, or Grazz't with his satan thing going on, but the rest I just never understood. Cultural corruption is the devil's stick - demons are more in-your-face types.

I think Mephisto would have been a good bloodline to have some firemagic. He's well known to have an interest in the manipulation of hellfire that giving his bloodline fire spells would make sense.

Mephista · Oct 12, 2017

Ironically, the Mephistopheles cult learns all fire spells (firebolt, burning hands, flaming sphere, fireball). That said, I must admit that I appreciate fewer spells that deal damage (or grant hp) than more. If I learned anything from the phb tiefling, non-scaling hellish rebuke very quickly becomes a worthless trait as time goes on and the level goes up. Cantrips scale with level, abilities like darkness, disguise self or charm person remain relevant throughout your pc's life. Damage spells quickly lose their oomph at lower levels.

Well, its very likely that Fernia and Belial seem to be moving away from the hellfire position in the first place. Mephistopheles seems to be holding onto that, I guess. So, that's quite likely why. Heck, the Mephistopheles warlock power is to shoot fireballs on top of eldritch blasts! That's a lot of fire.

EvanNave55 · Oct 12, 2017

This also doubles as a bunch of potential patrons for a friend* pact warlock.

Edit: *fiend
Sent from my XT1635-01 using EN World mobile app

dropbear8mybaby · Oct 12, 2017

Morrus said:
"Lazy" does appear to be the insult du jour for "a product not made exactly how I want it".

No, lazy is a comment on it being lazy. And it is very lazy to simply swap a couple of spells and a stat bump. That isn't design, that's copy/paste.

cbwjm · Oct 12, 2017

EvanNave55 said:
This also doubles as a bunch of potential patrons for a friend pact warlock.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EN World mobile app

Friend pact? Does anyone want to write up the Care Bear pact? Level 14 ability can be the Care Bear Stare.

Guest 6801328 · Oct 12, 2017

dropbear8mybaby said:
No, lazy is a comment on it being lazy. And it is very lazy to simply swap a couple of spells and a stat bump. That isn't design, that's copy/paste.

It only seems "lazy" to you because you expected or wanted more, which was Morrus' point above. Pure entitlement.

I personally am glad they did not do more with this. Even this is more variety than most races have, and I don't want to see Tieflings become the race du jour because powergamers can pick a la carte racial bonuses. This is actually good design, that also happens to require less work than the bad design some others are proposing. Far cry from "lazy".