log in or register to remove this ad

 

UA Unearthed Arcana: Spirits Bard and Undeath Warlock

Comments

Parmandur

Legend
Listened to the first half or so now, Crawford said the main impetus for the Bard of Spirits was to provide a Gothic Horror option to the Bard Class, and distinguishes between the Undead and Undying Patrons story-wise by pointing out that the Undying Patron can be any immortal being and is not exclusively undead themed like this new option is:

 

log in or register to remove this ad

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
Okay, here's this breakdown to illustrate how OP the Undead Warlock is now:

Okay, be level 20. Either get the Illusionist's Bracers (from GGtR) or multiclass into sorcerer for Quickened Spell. Then, have your Form of Dread and Hex up already, and cast Eldritch Blast as a bonus action and action. This ends up being:

8d10+8d6+20 necrotic damage with Hex, Agonizing Blast and a 20 in Charisma. With a bonus action as well, that's 16d10+16d6+40 damage. On average, 184 damage. At most, with no critical hits, 296 necrotic damage. With critical hits on all, average damage is 328 necrotic damage. With critical hits on all, maximum damage is 552 necrotic damage.

Insanely broken. You can also combine this with other magic items for an even higher damage total (imbued focuses from E:RftLW, staff of the ivory claw from EGtW).
Eh, 20th level characters being OP is nothing to write home about. I think the more pertinent question is how does it stack up to other builds at each tier of play. I haven’t crunched the numbers, but to me it seems strong-but-fair, unless you try to abuse multiclassing with Sorcerer, and Sorclocks being broken is also not news.
 

Listened to the first half or so now, Crawford said the main impetus for the Bard of Spirits was to provide a Gothic Horror option to the Bard Class, and distinguishes between the Undead and Undying Patrons story-wise by pointing out that the Undying Patron can be any immortal being and is not exclusively undead themed like this new option is:

Yeah. I noticed that the Undying doesn't have to be Undead (EGtW recommended Desirat, a phoenix, as an Undying Warlock patron), I wish it just didn't suck so much.

The subclass (Undying) even recommends Fistandatilus as a patron.
 

Have you ever heard of the rapper Eminem? I was referencing a song he performed. If you've never heard the song, the joke won't be funny. And there'[s no amount of explanation that will make it funny.

I really don't feel the need to defend the idea that I failed to make a funny joke, unless someone is going to argue the point (the joke was, in fact, funny), but they would have just clicked the laugh emoji.
FWIW, I got the reference. I was just trying to make it to the end of the thread before throwing my two coppers in but I worried (mostly correctly it seems) that it would fail to land heh... Points for trying though!
 

Eh, 20th level characters being OP is nothing to write home about. I think the more pertinent question is how does it stack up to other builds at each tier of play. I haven’t crunched the numbers, but to me it seems strong-but-fair, unless you try to abuse multiclassing with Sorcerer, and Sorclocks being broken is also not news.
It's already better than almost all other EB-spammers at the thing they specialize at, without Multiclassing. It's not just at level 20 that it's broken, its broken as soon as you get this feature.
 

Undrave

Hero
That's fine. I think most people agree the ability is broken without me having to do the math for everything, right? An extra damage dice on every necrotic attack you do. That's an extra dice for each blast from Eldritch Blast, and extra one for Hex, and if you have anything else that adds damage dice to a hit, it's getting doubled or quadrupled on a Critical Hit.
It kinda is yeah... but I feel like it's only broken with Eldritch Blast? It'd be fine with a melee attack because of the extra risk and the fact you don't get as many weapon attack as a Pact Blade Warlock compard to Eldritch Blast rays... Might be a big bump at sixth level but on the whole it'll flatten out.


It's called Circle of the Forged, fyi, and you don't need to be Warforged to do it.

So you could also be say, a Tabaxi and transform into a robot tiger. Now call yourself Cheetor and you're good. ;)


BEAST WARS / BEAST MACHINES HELL YEAH
But can you play the BEST Tranformer of all? Angry Cheese - Transformers Wiki
 

Parmandur

Legend
Yeah. I noticed that the Undying doesn't have to be Undead (EGtW recommended Desirat, a phoenix, as an Undying Warlock patron), I wish it just didn't suck so much.

The subclass (Undying) even recommends Fistandatilus as a patron.
I haven't been terribly inspired by the Undying, but I don't remember it being mechanically disadvantaged or broken either.
 

Okay, having caught up to the end of the thread now, my super condensed opinions on the UA classes are as follows.

Yeah, I was not a huge fan of Undying, but Undead is clearly and obviously a different niche thematically and otherwise. Room for both, even if most overlook the distinction.

Speaking of missing distinction, I can't fathom how people can look at Spirit Bard and see "shaman" in that. It is totally late 1800s parlor guest Victorian Spiritualism/Gothic Horror. Spirits and contact with them are not the exclusive domain of shamanism. If you wanna refluff it as a shaman, that's totally up to you, but that's its own separate thing and definitely not baked into the class. Honestly, if I wanted a shaman, this isn't the way I would do it in the first place. But it's your table, not mine.

Anyway, I think College of Spirits is a neat and unfilled conceptual space that has a lot of flavor, but I feel like it might be a little clunky at the table for the average game. In the hands of the right player, however, it could be amazing.

Undead Warlock I actually dig a lot and would work very well for the villain of a one-shot I'm trying to write up currently. I could definitely see playing one myself.
 

Benjamin Olson

Adventurer
Undead, Undying... neither of them have Animate Dead on their spell list so I still can't make a damned Warlock necromancer which is all I ever wanted to do with a Warlock.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
Anti-inclusive content
Romantic Era spiritualism, including occult secret societies and Romani reputations, sounds accurate enough.

Still.

In principle, stereotyping a Brit is just as problematic as stereotyping a Romani. I feel the class avoids being outright offensive. But it seems to be sticking its toes in to test the temperature of the water.

This is good example for: how does one be ethnically historically accurate while simultaneously avoiding reductionist stereotypes, or oppositely how does one borrow vivid flavor while simultaneously avoiding cultural appropriation?

One can see, why they want to playtest it.
That isn't how it works. The British are the oppressors, the colonizers.

For the record it is also not possible to be racist towards white people.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Undead, Undying... neither of them have Animate Dead on their spell list so I still can't make a damned Warlock necromancer which is all I ever wanted to do with a Warlock.
Well, the Class Variants rules have you covered, and those should be finalized in the Q4 book that Crawford stumbles around the bush about in today's broadcast...
 



That's fine. I think most people agree the ability is broken without me having to do the math for everything, right? An extra damage dice on every necrotic attack you do. That's an extra dice for each blast from Eldritch Blast, and extra one for Hex, and if you have anything else that adds damage dice to a hit, it's getting doubled or quadrupled on a Critical Hit.
Doesn't work. You roll 1 additional die when determining damage, so you can't do the blast and the hex.

And even if you want to claim the hex is a seperate damage roll, it isn't tied to the attack roll then, and so wouldn't qualify.

I would let them role the extra d6 instead of a necrotic d4 from stabbing with a dagger though.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
It's already better than almost all other EB-spammers at the thing they specialize at, without Multiclassing. It's not just at level 20 that it's broken, its broken as soon as you get this feature.
I don’t know... Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think it’s super clear-cut which is better between 1d10 force and 2d10 necrotic. A lot of stuff resists or has immunity to necrotic, and very little does to force. Like, it is probably too good, but I don’t think by that much. And the biggest problem is the synergy with Eldritch Blast. I think the best solution would just be to restrict the bonus damage to one roll against one target, just like the Celestial does with Radiant Soul .
 

Parmandur

Legend
I don’t know... Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think it’s super clear-cut which is better between 1d10 force and 2d10 necrotic. A lot of stuff resists or has immunity to necrotic, and very little does to force. Like, it is probably too good, but I don’t think by that much. And the biggest problem is the synergy with Eldritch Blast. I think the best solution would just be to restrict the bonus damage to one roll against one target, just like the Celestial does with Radiant Soul .
It's also something they will fix the math for before publishing, if the idea proves popular enough.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
Undead, Undying... neither of them have Animate Dead on their spell list so I still can't make a damned Warlock necromancer which is all I ever wanted to do with a Warlock.
It’s on the expanded Warlock spell list from the class feature options UA. Which... scares me, because it’s broken AF with Warlock spell slots.
 

ZeshinX

Adventurer
....and distinguishes between the Undead and Undying Patrons story-wise by pointing out that the Undying Patron can be any immortal being and is not exclusively undead themed like this new option is:
Well as explanations go that's a mighty fine hair to split, but sure, I can go with that. :p
 


It kinda is yeah... but I feel like it's only broken with Eldritch Blast? It'd be fine with a melee attack because of the extra risk and the fact you don't get as many weapon attack as a Pact Blade Warlock compard to Eldritch Blast rays... Might be a big bump at sixth level but on the whole it'll flatten out.
With Thirsting Blade, Life Drinker, a Stength of 20, Dual-Wielder with a Lance, riding on top a mount, that gives you 3 attacks a round, you can be 10 feet away from all creatures when you do these attacks (making almost no opportunity attacks against you, so the risk is low), it's still broken. Especially if you take the feat to get the Dual Wielder Fighting Style.

That gives you 2d12+1d6+10 necrotic damage for 2 attacks, with low risk, and a fairly high bonus to hit, and 2d12+1d6+5 necrotic damage as a bonus action. In a turn, that's an average of 62 necrotic damage. It's definitely not super OP, but is powerful, as it only takes 2 Eldritch Invocations, a feat, and a spell slot for Hex.
 

NOW LIVE! 5 Plug-In Settlements for your 5E Game

Advertisement1

NOW LIVE! 5 Plug-In Settlements for your 5E Game

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top