bedir than
Full Moon Storyteller
A Ranger without Spells is a Fighter: Scout. It still gets all the Natural Explorer stuff, has great skill at survival, works well in light armor, gets a fighting style, gets great attacks.
Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: The ranger, revised... overcompensation?
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I wish it had been Rogue instead of fighter. Much better fit, IMO.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Nah. The fighter is good. Maybe the name should not be scout however since it evokes a different expectation because of 3e and 4e legacy.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I disagree, but hey, like they say, mileage may vary.
I do know thatfor me, it's nothing to do with legacy. I didn't even know 3e had a scout hat was basically a rogue variant until last month when it come up in a thread, and 4e's scout was a ranger subclass.
For me, it's about not thinking the fighter is a good fit for the wilderness expert/survivalist. That's a concept that, again, for me, belongs either on it's own, or as part of the rogue. It's a skill monkey/exploration expert concept, which to me is more rogue. Something like the barbarian without supernatural abilities would be a fighter, IMO, while something like the Druid but less focused and without the shapechanging would be a wizard. (I know tradition says cleric, but I've never seen it)
anyway, should be easy to make a rogue subclass for it using the fighter one as a template.
Chaosmancer
Legend
If I understand correctly you want them to expand the animal empathy portion of the Primeval Awareness?
How exactly could it be expanded without making it the speak with animals spell, or a free dominate beast ability?
UngeheuerLich
Legend
The ranger in ADnD was a fighter with better surprise, twf when in light armor and bad rogue skills and very late some spellcasting. The fighter seems to be a good chassis. Roge skills are now just proficiencies, twf is something for everyone. The UA scout is a good spelless ranger in my opinion. I would not mind a scout based on a rogue though. I think it would indeed fit better. The 3e scout was a very mobile class that had some ranger abilities and a sneak attack like ability that kicked in whenever the scout moved more than a certain number of feet. It would be very easy to make a rogue subclass that is called scout and captures that feeling. It just would not be a ranger in my opinion.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Why wouldn't it be a ranger?
Idk I guess I just don't see why we should care where the ranger or scout lived in editions past. IMO, ignoring all that, if the ranger were a subclass, in 5e, it would fit best as a rogue archetype. :shrug: to me, the scout fighter is a nice fighter build with a bit of nature/tracking/survival expert, but it's hardly a Ranger. OTOH, expertise, cunning action, even sneak attack, all contribute to the character playing like a ranger, so a Ranger rogue would be something I'd only dislike if there weren't also a full ranger class.
Different strokes.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
As a DM and a player, I like the revised ranger very much. I don't think it's overcompensating, though I would definitely move some of the abilities around and adjust some.
Natural explorer: remove advantage on initiative and ignore difficult terrain. Add advantage or expertise on survival checks.
Primeval Awareness at level 3: remove the whole radar thing. Add proficiency bonus to initiative. Maybe change the other ability to advantage or expertise on animal handling checks to determine an animals needs if you don't attack it.
Fleet of foot at level 8: add ignore difficult terrain here
I would also change hunter's whirlwind attack to include reach weapons and suggested we need more spells for melee weapon rangers. I would have liked a spell-less option but it's not the end of the world for me if we don't have one.
Natural explorer: remove advantage on initiative and ignore difficult terrain. Add advantage or expertise on survival checks.
Primeval Awareness at level 3: remove the whole radar thing. Add proficiency bonus to initiative. Maybe change the other ability to advantage or expertise on animal handling checks to determine an animals needs if you don't attack it.
Fleet of foot at level 8: add ignore difficult terrain here
I would also change hunter's whirlwind attack to include reach weapons and suggested we need more spells for melee weapon rangers. I would have liked a spell-less option but it's not the end of the world for me if we don't have one.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
That sums it up quite nicely.
Lol yeah. And we seem to agree that both would be good. I wonder if here is a way to make a Hunter rogue or something like that, that is a ranger style rogue that isn't redundant with the scout fighter or Ranger, allowing multiclassing.
Id also love to see something like 4e's Seeker, either as a ranger, or as a nature themed warlock perhaps. Primal Spirits Patron, and a Pact Bow boon. The bow boon would also support a classic arcane archer, if done right.
The Primal/Seeker Pact would add some ranger/Druid spells, give tracking/hunting benefits, should be pretty strait forward.
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