Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: The ranger, revised... overcompensation?

[Lord Twig]

People worried about a 1 level dip for the Rogue Assassin to get advantage to Initiative (needlessly IMO), but I wondered about a multiclass Beast Conclave Ranger/Fighter.

Say if you went 5 levels Ranger and 5 Fighter you would have two attacks from Extra Attack and your companion would have one plus Coordinated Attack for another one using its reaction. With that combo you have a couple possibilities. I'll assume wolf for the companion for now.

The Ranger could use a greatsword for 2 attacks at 2d6+Str.
He could use shortswords for 3 attacks at 1d6+Dex.
Or he could use a longbow for 2 ranged attacks at 1d8+Dex.
Add to any of these the companion's 2 attacks for 2d4+8.

A strait Fighter would have exactly the same attacks at level 10 as the Ranger/Fighter, minus the beast attacks. However, at level 11 he will get:

Greatsword for 3 attacks at 2d6+Str.
Shortswords for 4 attacks at 1d6+Dex.
Or longbow for 3 ranged attacks at 1d8+Dex.

The Ranger's number of attacks won't change.

Another question. Would the companion get an ASI everytime the Ranger/Fighter does? Or only when he gets them from Ranger levels. Because if he goes Ranger 5/Fighter 15, he will get quite a few more ASIs.

 

[Xeviat]

Another question. Would the companion get an ASI everytime the Ranger/Fighter does? Or only when he gets them from Ranger levels. Because if he goes Ranger 5/Fighter 15, he will get quite a few more ASIs.

Id say every time. I also like this; I hate that extra attack doesn't stack. I'm going to sit down and check the numbers on these and see where they match up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Greybeard_Ray]

I would almost guarantee that the 'official' response would be that the companion would only get ASI's when the RANGER does.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

You're onto me. I think the other characters will die, too. At least three out of four anyway.

Is the fourth some sort of house-ruled ageless race, then?

 

[Mistwell]

People worried about a 1 level dip for the Rogue Assassin to get advantage to Initiative (needlessly IMO), but I wondered about a multiclass Beast Conclave Ranger/Fighter.

Say if you went 5 levels Ranger and 5 Fighter you would have two attacks from Extra Attack and your companion would have one plus Coordinated Attack for another one using its reaction. With that combo you have a couple possibilities. I'll assume wolf for the companion for now.

The Ranger could use a greatsword for 2 attacks at 2d6+Str.
He could use shortswords for 3 attacks at 1d6+Dex.
Or he could use a longbow for 2 ranged attacks at 1d8+Dex.
Add to any of these the companion's 2 attacks for 2d4+8.

A strait Fighter would have exactly the same attacks at level 10 as the Ranger/Fighter, minus the beast attacks. However, at level 11 he will get:

Greatsword for 3 attacks at 2d6+Str.
Shortswords for 4 attacks at 1d6+Dex.
Or longbow for 3 ranged attacks at 1d8+Dex.

The Ranger's number of attacks won't change.

Another question. Would the companion get an ASI everytime the Ranger/Fighter does? Or only when he gets them from Ranger levels. Because if he goes Ranger 5/Fighter 15, he will get quite a few more ASIs.

You're missing things like Hunter's Mark however

 

[Lord Twig]

I was thinking on this and would make the following changes to the Revised Ranger.

The Beast Conclave essentially gets their second attack (Extra Attack) at 3rd level when they get their companion.

At 5th level they currently get Coordinated Attack which gives the companion an extra attack for a reaction. This is similar to the 3rd level Hunter Conclave ability to get an extra attack as a reaction with Giant Killer. The difference is that Giant Killer only works when the Ranger is attacked by a Large or larger creature, instead of just whenever the animal companion can see the Ranger (so basically always). That and it is the animal companion, not the Ranger, giving up the reaction, so the Ranger still has his reaction.

So instead I would base Coordinated Attack on Colossus Slayer. But instead of doing extra damage when attacking a damaged creature, if the animal companion hits a creature that the Ranger attacked on his last turn (hit or miss), the attack does an extra +1d8 damage. So literally a coordinated attack where the Ranger sets up the foe, and the companion takes them out.

Then I would replace Storm of Claws and Fangs, which is based on the Hunter's Whirlwind Attack and just give the companion Multiattack, which would just allow the companion to attack twice. Like an Extra Attack, but just for your animal companion.

Thoughts?

Edit: Oh. I would also limit the animal companion's gain of HD and ASI to only Ranger levels. That would greatly reduce the desire to just get 3 levels of Ranger for a pet's extra attack as it would ensure that the companion would still be useful, but also fragile enough that it won't be overpowered in combat.

 

[Lord Twig]

You're missing things like Hunter's Mark however

True, but I didn't add in the Fighter's Combat Superiority dice or Improved Critical or Action Surge. There are definitely more things to consider, but if you just look at sheer number of attacks the Beast Ranger/Fighter multi comes out way ahead.

 

[Greybeard_Ray]

Ladies & Gentlemen:

Please, we can design 'theoretical' situations, multi-class combinations, and hypothetical situational combat comparisons for weeks (which we've done), and NONE of it makes a difference until we've actually SEEN the blasted thing play out at the table. I've been playing this game for 42 years, and I've seen or designed what I thought were 'guaranteed unstoppable' characters hundreds of times. I'm still waiting for one that actually is.

I used to play & run the Hero System/Champions! It was a point-build comic-book superhero RPG. I helped design dozens of characters that I thought would be impervious to combat, or guaranteed to keep their party up & fighting. Never happened. Want to know why?

The dice on the table ALWAYS have the final word.

Ray

 

[Erechel]

Then I would replace Storm of Claws and Fangs, which is based on the Hunter's Whirlwind Attack and just give the companion Multiattack, which would just allow the companion to attack twice. Like an Extra Attack, but just for your animal companion.

But... but... you would lose the bear granade! I LIKE the bear granade!

 

[iserith]

Ladies & Gentlemen:

Please, we can design 'theoretical' situations, multi-class combinations, and hypothetical situational combat comparisons for weeks (which we've done), and NONE of it makes a difference until we've actually SEEN the blasted thing play out at the table.

On that note, I posted an actual play report of two UA rangers here. It was a TPK.