D&D 5E Unfortunate Wording

[BryonD]

My gut reaction would be to split the difference.

I'd use as-is, but increase DC by +2 is the spell isn't on your class list and +4 if the spell is a different type of magic (arcane/divine; yes, I realize raw 5E doesn't focus so much on arcane/divine).

I'd also probably use INT (religion) or INT (Nature) depending on the class list.

A smart wizard with a religion background is going to be fairly decent at casting from cleric scrolls and the same for a magic domain/theme cleric for wizard spells. Outside of that, they both know it can be done, but it is almost always better to just get the right guy on it.

A pure fighter is always going to be looking at a +4 DC and probably a very poor roll. But it is not remotely disallowed.

Then you create scenarios that produce conflict over how much risk to take.
Maybe a wizard carries a few emergency L1 spells knowing the odds are 50/50.
Or maybe the party knows that a scroll of Lightning Bolt is going to be key to some challenge, but only the fighter will be able to get in the right place at the right time. The party has a couple days to figue out how to stack the odds in the fighter's favor.

 

[Mark CMG]

I'd probably limit it to Protection scrolls. Maybe introduce a Feat that allows Wizards/Clerics to make scrolls that can be read by non-casters.

 

[Ratskinner]

My first thought is that RAW, I would allow the fighter types to make a go of reading the scroll.

My second thought is that, much like the peek-a-boo halfling, that this is one of the things that can very easily (as demonstrated by the myriad suggested "fixes" in this thread) be twiddled with to affect the play at table. IMO, that sort of twiddling was one of the things that gives people such fond memories of the 1e era, because it meant they were playing a game just a bit closer to what they wanted. So, this sort of thing is a feature.....I think.

 

[Agamon]

Except that the wizards have to pay for the privilege.

Fighters should have to pay for the privilege by acquiring the Arcana skill. That's a lot less painful of a payment than the wizard makes.

Oh, there's a payment. If you don't have the Arcana skill, once you start wasting more scrolls than you manage to get to work, the party is quite likely to turn on you. That would be painful.

Everyone seems to read this as "anyone can use scrolls." Sure, if you really don't like your scrolls. This is very much a press your luck situation.

I see it more like this: if the party finds a druid scroll, and you don't have a druid, the wizard (or other Arcana-trained PC) can still try to cast it. And if it's lower level, he likely can. This makes all scrolls useful when the party finds them.

 

[Gradine]

People forget 5e isn't 3e or 4e. Biggest problem in 5e ATM.

Casters can't cheaply make scrolls anymore.

So any scrolls a party has will 90% be treasure or expensive if level level or weak if below level.

Having a fighter attempt to cast a Meteor Storm with a spell scroll that costs as much as a castle....
better be an emergency.

If they need it that bad, let them try.

This post wins the thread, and yet somehow got ignored for two pages. This isn't the 3e-style scroll-a-palooza. Your spellcasters aren't churning these things out like they grow on trees anymore. Obviously this rule would be a huge problem in 3e. But this isn't 3e. Scrolls are, at least in this point of 5e's lifespan, pretty much only treasure, and as such your players will only have as much access to them as you allow.

Why does the rule exist? I'd guess published adventures. Let's say a 3e published adventure drops a druid scroll as treasure. Problem is, no druids in the party (or no UMD either). No big, the party can just march to the nearest city (or hell, village) and pawn it for a neat profit. Same published adventure, same scroll, same party, but now we're in 5e. The core rules pretty much establish how hard it is to buy and sell magic items. So rather than force the players through a mini-find-a-buyer-adventure, the party can now try to actually get some use out of it, which is what the damn thing was intended for in the first place.

It's a pretty clever bit of a design work, actually, especially when you consider that they axed the Scroll Scribe feat between the Alpha and the published goods.

 

[Gradine]

Duplicate post

 

[KarinsDad]

This post wins the thread, and yet somehow got ignored for two pages. This isn't the 3e-style scroll-a-palooza. Your spellcasters aren't churning these things out like they grow on trees anymore. Obviously this rule would be a huge problem in 3e. But this isn't 3e. Scrolls are, at least in this point of 5e's lifespan, pretty much only treasure, and as such your players will only have as much access to them as you allow.

I hope not.

There is a huge verisimilitude hit if there are magic items, but no way to craft them. Where the heck did they come from?

DM: "Well, they could be crafted before the Sundering, but no longer."

That's totally lame.

Not that I want PCs creating a ton of items, but if the group decides that they want or need some minor scroll, that should be doable without some major quest to get the butt cheek of a gargoyle.

The DMG should have good item crafting rules. It's not that the game should have a ton of crafting, but it should allow the players to do so if that is the direction where they are spending their resources.

And the "this is not 3E" argument is a bit weak as well. One of the goals of 5E was to get back to some of the 1E, 2E, and 3E roots. That should include magic item crafting. IMO.

PS. If you have read the first Sundering book, some spell casters in it are cheering that magic is back to the way it was before the spellplague. So if magic is back to the way it was, so should magic item creation. Or at least that seems logical. Granted, spells are not identical to 3E, but they are pretty darn close. They feel like 3E spells (with some buffing and other limitations, along with revised Vancian).

 

[Minigiant]

I hope not.

There is a huge verisimilitude hit if there are magic items, but no way to craft them. Where the heck did they come from?

DM: "Well, they could be crafted before the Sundering, but no longer."

That's totally lame.

Not that I want PCs creating a ton of items, but if the group decides that they want or need some minor scroll, that should be doable without some major quest to get the butt cheek of a gargoyle.

The DMG should have good item crafting rules. It's not that the game should have a ton of crafting, but it should allow the players to do so if that is the direction where they are spending their resources.

And the "this is not 3E" argument is a bit weak as well. One of the goals of 5E was to get back to some of the 1E, 2E, and 3E roots. That should include magic item crafting. IMO.

PS. If you have read the first Sundering book, some spell casters in it are cheering that magic is back to the way it was before the spellplague. So if magic is back to the way it was, so should magic item creation. Or at least that seems logical. Granted, spells are not identical to 3E, but they are pretty darn close. They feel like 3E spells (with some buffing and other limitations, along with revised Vancian).

Yeah, but 3e did have the best crafting rules and its style would not match 5e. 4e's craft method wouldnt work either.Spell slot limitation is how 5e balances its casters, half casters, and noncasters.

Magic item crafting would probably be in the DMG and be limited, costly, or expenvsive by default. DMs can then house rules to alter balance.

 

[erf_beto]

There are plenty of ways to limit non-casters from using scrolls, I bet the DMG is full of ideas/variants, like imposing disadvantage, upping the DC, only if Arcana-trainned, or using different skills for different "power sources"...

But the most interesting one I'm sure we'll get is the "d100 Random Scroll Mishaps" Table for those who fail the check.

 

[ThirdWizard]

And the "this is not 3E" argument is a bit weak as well. One of the goals of 5E was to get back to some of the 1E, 2E, and 3E roots. That should include magic item crafting. IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2e I recall magic item crafting to be: The DM will make something up, but it should involve a quest involving impossible materials and probably multiple sessions. Then they would cast Permanency and lose a point of Constitution forever.