Unhappy Pally - Righteous Rage + Vicious Weapon

[doggywoggy]

rpl

If he wants to outdamage rogues, he will have to wait until paragon and start playing a stormwarden (str/dex) or pit fighter (str/wis) melee ranger or the ranged variants. shrug

nah, out-damaging rogues is not the point (or my goal, and never was). How can they perform max damage (min-maxing the overall party's efficiency rather than one element) without my help? They can't. My character concept is "smart + diplomacy, without effeminacy". Speak softly but carry a big stick (==axe).

Two things my character does not tolerate : torture and slavery. When Balgron and the torturer in the Keep were doing their thing, I ran in like a thunderbolt, without regard. That was the moment of Truth, and righteousness crushed the evil. I was first-in, last out. I'd rather die fighting such atrocities than burn in shame, shuddering at my failings to prevent it. There are worse fates than Death : dishonour.

Only a fool would disdain getting the sharpest blade or fellest Axe they could find, toward such noble ends. For me, that was WarAxe, allowing a shield to defend my Party or the weak and meek.

That said, is it conclusively proven one way or the other whether more accuracy or higher dmg is better? (i.e. hitting some vs hitting none or hitting harder). It seems to me Twin Strike requires a lot of feats to achieve for me, for only a few extra dpr but a more graceful and reliable in terms of killing things. Is reliability that much in favor? Let's compare Valiant Strike vs Twin Strike. Valiant in the last battle would have allowed me to hit on like a 6 or better, for less dmg, whereas Twin Strike would have a certain chance to his twice, a greater chance to hit once, but only to a maximum of a "retry" rather than +1/enemy adjacent? That's the choice I'd face at lvl 11 : to Twin or not to Twin, that is the question. Holy can generate moly dmg, but unreliably. Twin could do more overall (slightly, if all the right feats are taken), but it's a question of diminishing returns. Fot an at-will, is it better to be do reliable damage or higher max potential? My gut+vanity tells me the former, but my pride+glory says the latter (meaning I could spend those extra feats in actual defendery abilities and a real paragon class). That said, there is nothing more glorious than Cascade of Blades, is there? I would achieve that with only one or two feats.

hmmmmm...

 

[Obryn]

That said, is it conclusively proven one way or the other whether more accurary or higher dmg is better? (i.e. hitting some vs hitting none or hitting harder). It seems to me Twin Strike requires a lot of feats to achieve for me, for only a few extra dpr but a more graceful and reliable in terms of killing things. Is reliability that much in favor? Let's compare Valiant Strike vs Twin Strike. Valiant in the last battle would have allowed me to hit on like a 6 or better, for less dmg, whereas Twin Strike would have a certain chance to his twice, a greater chance to hit once, but only to a maximum of a "retry" rather than +1/enemy adjacent? That's the choice I'd face at lvl 11 : to Twin or not to Twin, that is the question. Holy can generate moly dmg, but unreliably. Twin could do more overall (slightly, if all the right feats are taken), but it's a question of diminishing returns. An at-will, is it better to be more reliable damage or higher max potential? My gut tells me the latter, but my belly says the former (meaning I could spend those extra feats in actual defendery abilities and a real paragon class).

hmmmmm...

I think you'd honestly see a sizable reduction in damage if you switched to Twin Strike. When it comes down to it, both Holy Strike and Valiant Strike are very capable at-wills. Valiant Strike is amazingly accurate, and Holy Strike is both very damaging, and Radiant. Really, that's where Strength paladins shine, IMHO.

Without the Ranger kicker damage, I think you would deal less (or, at best, comparable) damage with Twin Strike. When you can hit easily or against undead, use Holy Strike. When you are having a hard time hitting, switch to Valiant Strike.

I'd spend those feats on things which make you a better Defender or a better Leader. I'd also pretty much leave Charisma around a 12, and just accept that your Divine Challenge will be pretty lackluster, unless you're facing undead... I'd multiclass to Fighter, Warden, Barbarian, or Cleric, and swap out your 9th-level Daily for something Strength-based from one of those classes. Stick to either one HUGE weapon, like an Executioner Axe or a Mordenkrad; or a craghammer/waraxe + shield.

-O

 

[doggywoggy]

good tips, Obryn. What class do you play, if I may ask?

I mostly like the choices offerered by a tactical combination of Twin Strike + Dynamic Weapons. e.g. one melee and one switched into hand-ax in case I need to use the 2nd strike to whack some guy in the back running away (like a little gurl hehehehehehe)

I mean, intuitively, I did some of the math for expected values with Deadly Axe and various combinations of war-axes of different types in each hand, and I think the versatility could far out weigh the loss of defendery feats. I plan on taking Uncanny Dodge at lvl 11 no matter what, as a matter of principle. Other things I've noticed is that I could blow a daily, have it miss, and wish I had just spent it one round later once I was bloodied. With Blade Cascade, that becomes 10[W] damage. Not bad. Taking the PMC route just means my ax+shield combo is a last resort, whereas investing in Twin-Strike probably means every battle I will try to be as big a nuisance to as many guys as possible. My DM is fair, whereas sometimes he will say outright, e.g. Rrot is way too powerful, the other day he allowed my melee Piercing Smite to be used thru my handax to whack the guy in the back, which of course I rolled a 4 but hit Reflex 16---awesome. Paladin does, in fact, have pretty good powers indeed. Now that I have very good str and wis (better than b4), my holy strike is looking better and better, and Valiant + Piercing are making me feel very central and useful in the midst of the chaos. I really like those theatrical, heroic moments in battle that really make you think, wow, that was awesome and not fudged at all. No guts, no glory, just like no risk no reward. The dice can be ruthless, but so can the cunning of a well-oiled battle group.

 

[Obryn]

good tips, Obryn. What class do you play, if I may ask?

I DM, mostly. So I get to see a big variety of classes at work.

One of my players had a Strength paladin at one time. I was actually pretty impressed with the character.

I mostly like the choices offerered by a tactical combination of Twin Strike + Dynamic Weapons. e.g. one melee and one switched into hand-ax in case I need to use the 2nd strike to whack some guy in the back running away (like a little gurl hehehehehehe)

Well, I can certainly see that. You can do the same with a 2-H weapon, though, should you wish.

Paladin does, in fact, have pretty good powers indeed. Now that I have very good str and wis (better than b4), my holy strike is looking better and better, and Valiant + Piercing are making me feel very central and useful in the midst of the chaos. I really like those theatrical, heroic moments in battle that really make you think, wow, that was awesome and not fudged at all. No guts, no glory, just like no risk no reward. The dice can be ruthless, but so can the cunning of a well-oiled battle group.

Yep, I think the best thing you can do while playing a Paladin is to embrace one of the two builds. Don't try to straddle the line between Strength & Charisma. Pick one, commit to it, and boost your Wisdom.

I'm glad to hear things are going better!

-O