Unicorn's Touch: Free Hit Points Every 5 Minutes?

[Old Gumphrey]

Not sure what the big deal is...even moderately optimized PCs are virtually indestructible nowadays. Dying isn't fun, so it was mostly removed from the game AFAICT.

 

[Garthanos]

I really don't like them. They make no sense. How do you, for instance, "spend" a healing surge on something, like the healing sash?

Most people spend a healing surge on getting there second wind...
Invoking ones spirit digging in deep, thinking about the things in life that really make my juices flow the hero getting his second wind is inspiring himself... Sometimes listening to an inspirational song helps my morale... ah yes thats bardic influence.. etc.

In real life a second wind is and adrenaline surge which occurs when your body decides muscle fatigue usually has reach a level of pain that performance needs demand you ignore the pain, this drug your body makes also induces a euphoric response. If somebody attacks you moments after the hit of bio joy juice you are going to be able to avert a lot more damage ie you have the hit points. Your body can make this happen only so much and only so often in the game that is limited by your healing surges and the second wind rules...

In real life a person can perform acts of self hypnosis and inspiring things cause some of the same chemical pain killing performance altering biochemestry that we are calling an adrenaline surge above ... it isnt the same exactly and caused by something different ... but the effects are very similar...

In the game your inspirational types can help you access more of those.
In the game that physical surge is mingled with luck and hope and morale and similar things I wouldnt mind having luck points separate from adrenaline points separate from morale.. etc...but the layer of complexity is not fun for many people.

All that healing surges do is add a fluctuating "deep resource" level on the same thing that hit points model .. luck, energy/vigor, morale... all of those are now layered.

Saying it's "luck" doesn't work either. Characters know exactly how much they have. Do you know how much luck you have? Does anyone? Nope.

Fundamental roleplaying error... this is.
Keeping a distinction between me and the character I know his hit points and strength exactly he certainly doesn't why do you think he does.
Players know how many hitpoints there characters have..

"Do you have a player what is his name and does he tell you how much luck you have?"

In movies heros make comeback turn arounds.. the game gives you the "player" control over that
not the "characters". D&D is not great at "immersion" never has been.... too much abstraction for that, do you have the DM record all hitpoints and make all the die rolls?

 

[DreamChaser]

Two words on Healing Surges: Bruce Willis

Okay...that actually needs three more words: Die Hard series.

John McClain gets the crap kicked out of him over and over...he's down (nearly for the count) about a dozen times in a single night. He walks across broken glass, dodges bullets, jumps down elevator shafts, and has strong words (fist to face style) with a bunch of thugs. Some battles go worse than others and during those it seems like he's about to just give up the ghost. But does he?

No. John McClain is a hero and heroes have reserves that run deeper than that. Most of what he was facing was exhaustion and bruises. So he sucked it up and pushed through and caught his breath and went after the next set of bad guys to save the day.

That is what spending a healing surge with second wind and / or between encounters looks like.

Now, eventually (contrived by the plot to happen when the movie is over and the ambulance can get to him) John runs out of surges and can't get up on his own any more. He is hobbling along, barely able to stand.

That is what being out of healing surges looks like.

This same idea is seen in many fight movies (especially kung fu style movies and crappy Jean Claude Van Damm flix). The hero is beaten to a bloody pulp and with nothing more than a sudden burst of energy (second wind), or the inspiring words of a loved one or ally (Inspiring Word), or the intervention of supernatural forces, they suddenly get back up and win the day.

I see no validity to the claim that there are no literary or cinematic examples of this idea as I have just presented several. And if D&D fudged things by omitting penalties to actions as HP / surges dwindle, I think it is because the found that this is superior for **most** people's game flow.

Now...on topic, sure the power **could** be used that way just as healing word **can** be used to increase the number of surges effectively available to each character substantially. 2d6+4 extra hp (+5 if dwarf or elf) easily **doubles** the impact of a healing surge for a controller or striker at 6th level. This means that the wizard's 6 healing surges have suddenly become 12. The benefit for defenders is only about +25%.

If my party were every inclined to spend 2 hours between each encounter blowing powers to hyper heal, I'd roll my eyes, allow it when it suited me, and attack them mid rest with all their healing powers expended when I wanted to show them the folly of making such an activity an every day occurance.

DC

 

[Gort]

Not sure what the big deal is...even moderately optimized PCs are virtually indestructible nowadays. Dying isn't fun, so it was mostly removed from the game AFAICT.

My monsters have killed about five player characters so far, and I don't even play that often. You're wrong.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I really don't like them. They make no sense. How do you, for instance, "spend" a healing surge on something, like the healing sash?

There's plenty of examples in literature of items which draw on their wielder to function, and leave their wielder feeling drained.

If you're "bloodied" and rest for 5 minutes but then fall off a cliff, you die, but had you "spent" a couple healing surges, you have enough HPs to live. Weird. So "luck" didn't save you from dying from the cliff, but had you spent the surges and had less "luck" left, you'd have lived. Weird.

So.... why didn't you spend those surges to get better? Because you were trying to prove that the system was silly?

What does someone with no healing surges left look like compared to someone with full? I dunno. 4E didn't even try to describe it, like they didn't try to describe what it looks like to use healing surge. Because, well, they can't really.

What does someone who's on 1hp in 3e look like?

Answer: it depends on where his hitpoints went: he might just be a sickly, weak and studious individual (hello con 4 wizard!) at the peak of his health, or he could simply be missing huge chunks of his hale and healthy body (hello 17th level fighter that barely survived disintegration). Same goes for surges.

 

[James McMurray]

I really don't like them. They make no sense. How do you, for instance, "spend" a healing surge on something, like the healing sash? Theres no parallel for this in any fantasy movie I've ever seen, or in reality. You can't have "Joe from Wisconsin thrown into a fantasy world, picks up a sword and starts fighting" because DnD characters just don't work the way you and I and even movie and fantasy people and characters do.

Saying it's "luck" doesn't work either. Characters know exactly how much they have. Do you know how much luck you have? Does anyone? Nope. And again, how do you "spend" your luck activating a magic item or to heal someone else completely? I certainly can't spend my luck that way, maybe it's not a surprise I can't picture it and no film-maker I know of has tried.

If you're "bloodied" and rest for 5 minutes but then fall off a cliff, you die, but had you "spent" a couple healing surges, you have enough HPs to live. Weird. So "luck" didn't save you from dying from the cliff, but had you spent the surges and had less "luck" left, you'd have lived. Weird.

What does someone with no healing surges left look like compared to someone with full? I dunno. 4E didn't even try to describe it, like they didn't try to describe what it looks like to use healing surge. Because, well, they can't really.

It seems to me that the root of your problem comes from trying to define hit points and healing surges as a single thing. They're not luck. They're not inner reserves to push past pain. They're not magic. They're all of that and more.

Hit points and healing surges are whatever you need them to be at that moment to decide why the giant's well-aimed swing didn't chop the ex-City Guard turned adventurer in half.

If my party were every inclined to spend 2 hours between each encounter blowing powers to hyper heal, I'd roll my eyes, allow it when it suited me, and attack them mid rest with all their healing powers expended when I wanted to show them the folly of making such an activity an every day occurance.

This. I like anything that means more stuff happens and makes the 15 minute day a non-necessity. Our group uses extra short rests and cleric powers when it makes sense to do so, and avoids them when it doesn't (which usually means it's time for a long rest, or we're in a part of the adventure where sitting around for an extended period of time is foolish).

 

[Nail]

Two words on Healing Surges: Bruce Willis

Okay...that actually needs three more words: Die Hard series.

That's the way I think of it too.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

I think another problem with the OP's original point is the equality of 'short rest' with 'five minutes.' While I understand the need for some sort of minimum absolute timing reference for perspective, the short rest to me feels like the opposite of an encounter. Trying to attach a chronological duration to what is essentially a narrative device is bound to run into logic problems.

Yes, that means I only let my cleric use two Healing Words in-between encounters because that 'short rest' is itself an "anti-encounter" if you will. I actually prefer the term 'scene' because then it makes more sense in skill challenges as opposed to 'encounter' which has a heavy combat connotation. An encounter power is one we get to see used once (or twice, occasionally) per situation the PCs get into. If they're in combat - we see it once. If resting - we see it once. If they're bumming around town, even for multiple hours? - one time. It's an entirely narrative constraint and should be dealt with subsequently in narrative terms.

end rant

 

[Mistwell]

So a party of 6 people who each have 100 hit points and are all virtually dead after a battle will take roughly 5 hours to heal through this method. Or, they will take 8 hours with an extended rest and without this power.

In that context, it doesn't seem particularly powerful.

 

[Garthanos]

Um? If you have 10 surges, you can chug 10 healing potions and they work, 10 more and they do nothing. Alternatly you can spend 10 surges on powers and then the very first potion you try won't even work... even if you wait 3 days without taking an extended rest. So "influence of a potion" makes no sense what so ever. It's a really ugly shortcut they took to try to force characters to rest frequently.

When I said "Though I also like" I wasn't implying the current design uses that idea I was implying that it did not. The current potions using healing surges imply that potions like poets, priests and politicians give you a push to help you access something you already have. There are drugs as well as self hypnosis and sugar pills(placebo effect) that will do a similar thing in real life.