Shadowdark Unless I am wrong

[Celebrim]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I mean that per the 1e AD&D RAW, if you have a 5 in two different attributes, you do not qualify for any class regardless of what your other stats are. You'd be limited to being a 0th level human who can't advance in levels.

Or this. I wonder if you are universalizing something that was very specific to.your gaming circle?

My gaming circle has crossed like 6 states at this point, and I've heard repeatedly people bragging about how they played "3d6 straight up, in order" or something of that sort in person in those states, as well as online. And it's the sort of thing which in KOTDT, Weird Pete would be made to say when complaining about kids these days. I'm not prepared to provide proof through citations that it's common enough to be a trope, but it's common enough to be a trope.

There is nothing sacred about copying over a ritual of play that was at the time mostly honored in reality in the breach of it, either by making many many characters until by sifting you got one viable (many ways to do this) or by literally cheating (many ways to do that as well). The old school games were not balanced around the idea of average stats. If anything, they too front-loaded things by rewarding better than average stats far more extensively than they perhaps should have. There is no reason for emulating something that was not only dysfunctional back in the day, but which I eventually realized wasn't even being demanded or encouraged by the game's designer.

 

[Reynard]

I mean that per the 1e AD&D RAW, if you have a 5 in two different attributes, you do not qualify for any class regardless of what your other stats are. You'd be limited to being a 0th level human who can't advance in levels.

It has been a long time but I only recall you needing at least one of Str, Int, Wis or Dex of 9 to be a member of one of the core 4.

 

[Celebrim]

It has been a long time but I only recall you needing at least one of Str, Int, Wis or Dex of 9 to be a member of one of the core 4.

For each ability score there is a restriction that if you have 5 or less in that ability, you may only be a member of a single class. For example, if you have 5 or less wisdom you may only be a thief. If you have 5 or less dexterity, you may only be a cleric. But if you have 5 or less in two abilities, then you can't qualify for any class because you would be forbidden from both.

And while the prime requisite for core classes was only a 9, as a practical matter you generally needed at least a 13 or 14. For example, if you were merely a DEX 9 thief, you'd get massive penalties on all your thief abilities. It's not until DEX 13 that you have the minimum DEX to be a competent thief, but as a practical matter without a DEX 16 you shouldn't even bother, because at that point you get only bonuses on your thief skills but the all important 10% bonus to XP.

Similarly, you could be a Wizard with merely 9 INT, but you were forbidden from learning higher levels spells without higher INT, and if you were a Cleric with 9 WIS, you'd have to roll each time you cast a spell to see if it would be successful. In short, you'd suck.

 

[Reynard]

For each ability score there is a restriction that if you have 5 or less in that ability, you may only be a member of a single class. For example, if you have 5 or less wisdom you may only be a thief. If you have 5 or less dexterity, you may only be a cleric. But if you have 5 or less in two abilities, then you can't qualify for any class because you would be forbidden from both.

Ah. Interesting. It is not a rule I can remember ever being invoked, but a character starting with 2 5s is just as unlikely as one starting with 2 16s.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well in fairness…D&D has had labels and specifics about being able to speak and write and lift and son on…

But I did not see such a thing in my reading of shadowdark. It may only be because it is so succinct…or the creator did not want people on the sidelines.

Kelsey made room for class titles after decades of no one using them. If she wanted to say low intelligence people were half-wits, she would have found the space