Shadowdark Unless I am wrong

[Bill Zebub]

Lately my mods are:
-Every players rolls a set with 3d6, but all players have access to use any of the sets generated. This bumps up the average a bit and means no one is stuck with a set worse than the rest of the group. I do let them arrange to taste, doing this. If a character dies, the player gets to generate a new set and add that to the "pool" of sets, so more chances for a high set and a bit of a consolation for death.

My favorite method for rolling Shadowdark characters...which I learned from somebody in the Shadowdark Discord...is to roll straight 3d6 down the line, but have the option to "invert" all six scores by subtracting each from 21. 18's become 3's, 3's become 18's, etc.

 

[Mannahnin]

My favorite method for rolling Shadowdark characters...which I learned from somebody in the Shadowdark Discord...is to roll straight 3d6 down the line, but have the option to "invert" all six scores by subtracting each from 21. 18's become 3's, 3's become 18's, etc.

Yeah, that's my other favorite, and is still my default in my OSE house rules. John Quixote FKA Jack Daniel introduced me to that idea five years ago this Jan! Holy crap time flies.

 

[GreyLord]

My favorite method for rolling Shadowdark characters...which I learned from somebody in the Shadowdark Discord...is to roll straight 3d6 down the line, but have the option to "invert" all six scores by subtracting each from 21. 18's become 3's, 3's become 18's, etc.

That actually sounds pretty cool. Does that mean, technically, that no one could really ever roll a really bad character?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That actually sounds pretty cool. Does that mean, technically, that no one could really ever roll a really bad character?

If you're required to flip all of the scores, any good scores would become bad. I think it's probably more useful for people who really want to play a specific class and just have terrible luck with the appropriate stat.

Note that even the core book tells you to reroll truly hapless characters, as well.

 

[Mannahnin]

That actually sounds pretty cool. Does that mean, technically, that no one could really ever roll a really bad character?

Theoretically if you rolled, say, a really bad CON and really high DEX, flipping it would just swap where the problem was. Either option would leave you a less-survivable than normal character.

But yeah, in GENERAL, allowing a "flip" means there are no "hopeless characters". Any set of below-average stats can be inverted to become an above-average set. This is one of the things I like about it. You never need to roll a second set if you use this method.

1981 Moldvay and 1983 Mentzer Basic both advise using 3d6 down the line, and that the DM can allow re-rolls if a player rolls a cruddy set, and Mentzer actually gives you a guideline for HOW bad is too bad, but sometimes you wind up needing one or more re-rolled sets. With the "flip" rule no one ever needs to re-roll. Saves time and avoids the DM needing to make difficult judgement calls and look mean or soft.

Of course, if your target is at least one stat of 14 or higher, per the Shadowdark guideline, you could still need a re-roll, if you got an all-average set. If I were using this rule in Shadowdark specifically, I might instead say that if, after rolling 3d6 down the line, NEITHER of your two options (flipped and non-flipped) contains at least one 14, you may raise any one stat of your choice to 14 (EDIT: Or maybe, you automatically raise your highest stat to 14; you may choose if there's a tie). Average Joe just gets that one little choice bump.

 

[Bill Zebub]

If you're required to flip all of the scores, any good scores would become bad. I think it's probably more useful for people who really want to play a specific class and just have terrible luck with the appropriate stat.

Note that even the core book tells you to reroll truly hapless characters, as well.

Exactly.

If you sum the modifiers of all six stats then it's impossible to get stuck with a sum less than zero (unless you actually prefer that array to it's inverse...e.g. 18, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9 over 3, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12.)

 

[JohnSnow]

I think the most logical interpretation of rolling for stats in an RPG is that they represent the range of characteristics that can be expected in "professional adventurers."

If we took INT as an example, and mapped it to real-world IQ, 8-13 maps to the 65% that has an IQ between 85 and 115, or "Average." But it's worth remembering that what we (today) think of as truly "intellectually disabled" is actually very, very rare (<0.5% of the population). In D&D terms, these people would have an INT of 2. An Int of 3 or 4 roughly corresponds (percentage-wise) to an IQ under 70.

As a way of conveying what IQ means to people that aren't professional psychologists, it's said that people with a 70 IQ have the mental age of a 9-12 year-old child and would therefore be roughly limited to the mental resasoning (math, reading skills, puzzle-solving) of an average 10 year-old. Similarly, a PC with a 3 or 4 INT would be about like a (non-precocious) third-grader. They're perfectly capable of functioning, but they aren't always going to be thinking things through.

Is that level of intelligence "realistic" for an adventurer? Probably not. But anything in the more normal range of low (an INT of 5-8) is just "Grog, who's not that bright."