Bedrockgames
Legend
But grunge is what triggered that sea change in the mainstream (and again, not a fan of grunge at all but I think credit where credit is due)
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But grunge is what triggered that sea change in the mainstream (and again, not a fan of grunge at all but I think credit where credit is due)
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Did people miss when ska surged in the 1980s or something?
Ska Surge sounds like the name of a particularly vile energy drink.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
That was second wave ska.
Did people miss when ska surged in the 1980s or something?
Citizen Mane
It's old Fezziwig alive again!
Sounds like the results of drinking Ska Surge.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
There were a bunch of Napoleonic games both Gygax and Arneson played in where individual people played 'roles' at the diplomacy level. If I recall correctly the first 1:1 figure use I can think of was a leader in Chainmail (so certainly per OD&D) and I think that this developed into heroes and wizards and whatnot. The extent of the roleplaying involved there is perhaps suspect of course, but set net to the meta use of diplomacy the ingredients are there.
RE: 70s/80s/90s music
One of my degrees is an MBA in Sports & Entertainment Marketing. So- between that and my lifelong music obsession- I’m alway paying attention to the music used in ads, marketing, and places of business. It tells you something about who they’re trying to appeal to.
Something that never ceases to surprise me is when certain older tunes get used to sell things to younger audiences. I mean, I get that some nostalgia for what their parents & older siblings might have listened to could apply, it seems too common for it to be playing on just that bit of psychology.
It’s probably a bit more to do with the ad executives’ own nostalgia. But even if THAT’S true, that can’t be the only thing going on either, because the music wouldn’t be as effective as a marketing tool.
I’m thinking that we’re seeing certain 30, 40, and 50 year old songs have become evergreen for marketing purposes. They not only captured their own place & time, but also something about the way we associate music with certain things & feelings. They captured a vibe that’s in some way nearly universal & immortal.
One of my degrees is an MBA in Sports & Entertainment Marketing. So- between that and my lifelong music obsession- I’m alway paying attention to the music used in ads, marketing, and places of business. It tells you something about who they’re trying to appeal to.
Something that never ceases to surprise me is when certain older tunes get used to sell things to younger audiences. I mean, I get that some nostalgia for what their parents & older siblings might have listened to could apply, it seems too common for it to be playing on just that bit of psychology.
It’s probably a bit more to do with the ad executives’ own nostalgia. But even if THAT’S true, that can’t be the only thing going on either, because the music wouldn’t be as effective as a marketing tool.
I’m thinking that we’re seeing certain 30, 40, and 50 year old songs have become evergreen for marketing purposes. They not only captured their own place & time, but also something about the way we associate music with certain things & feelings. They captured a vibe that’s in some way nearly universal & immortal.
DrunkonDuty
he/him
I'm surprised to hear that 3rd wave ska was used to sell anything, including 3rd wave ska. 
The following is just a thought that came to me from reading the last couple of pages. It's a bit of a rambling non sequitur:
The oft cited ex nihilo appearance of the 90s alternative scene* does a disservice to those that came before. Without, at least, punk & post-punk grunge would never have happened. Likewise, without a bunch of other games, DnD would never have happened. Art doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are always influences.
We can of course argue about what we think are the precise amounts any one thing influenced another. Being ENWorld there will of course be loads of that. And that's a fun pass time, I'm not knocking it. But I'll say the precise details are going to be unknowable. Even a given artist would probably not be able to list all the influences on their art. Many of them would be subconscious.
So, er, anyway, that was my TED Talk. As an aside, am I the only one who thinks TED Talks lack the gravitas they once had?
*I don't know what serious music critics are saying, but certainly the people I knew back in the day thought this.
The following is just a thought that came to me from reading the last couple of pages. It's a bit of a rambling non sequitur:
The oft cited ex nihilo appearance of the 90s alternative scene* does a disservice to those that came before. Without, at least, punk & post-punk grunge would never have happened. Likewise, without a bunch of other games, DnD would never have happened. Art doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are always influences.
We can of course argue about what we think are the precise amounts any one thing influenced another. Being ENWorld there will of course be loads of that. And that's a fun pass time, I'm not knocking it. But I'll say the precise details are going to be unknowable. Even a given artist would probably not be able to list all the influences on their art. Many of them would be subconscious.
So, er, anyway, that was my TED Talk. As an aside, am I the only one who thinks TED Talks lack the gravitas they once had?
*I don't know what serious music critics are saying, but certainly the people I knew back in the day thought this.
Gradine
The Elephant in the Room (she/they)
Can you explain why anyone would use Space Oddity in a car commercial?
This is always the way, though. Look how many people think Gygax and Arneson invented RPGs from whole cloth, as if there weren't years and years of experimental development before them sneaking up on the idea. You can't point to a cultural development-- artistic, philosophical or scientific-- that was developed from nothing. Ot all grows out of what comes before.I'm surprised to hear that 3rd wave ska was used to sell anything, including 3rd wave ska.
The following is just a thought that came to me from reading the last couple of pages. It's a bit of a rambling non sequitur:
The oft cited ex nihilo appearance of the 90s alternative scene* does a disservice to those that came before. Without, at least, punk & post-punk grunge would never have happened. Likewise, without a bunch of other games, DnD would never have happened. Art doesn't happen in a vacuum, there are always influences.
We can of course argue about what we think are the precise amounts any one thing influenced another. Being ENWorld there will of course be loads of that. And that's a fun pass time, I'm not knocking it. But I'll say the precise details are going to be unknowable. Even a given artist would probably not be able to list all the influences on their art. Many of them would be subconscious.
So, er, anyway, that was my TED Talk. As an aside, am I the only one who thinks TED Talks lack the gravitas they once had?
*I don't know what serious music critics are saying, but certainly the people I knew back in the day thought this.
But people are by turns lazy, myopic and gullible, so they buy ideas like "Pythagoras invented trigonometry" or "Elvis invented Rockabilly" without even a question.
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