Unseen Servant spell question

[Greenfield]

What they can't do is make the attack roll needed to actually hit with the burning wood, the rock off the cliff, or the kettle of boiling water. Even a touch attack is still an attack.

 

[Lyrad8791]

Im currently looking for the summon monster spell that has the invisible stalker in it.. then I am going to modify it to only summon that creature. It will be a limited version of the creature combined with an Unseen Servant. I think this would work for what I want. It is going to create a lot of trouble making this spell though. As the book says, compare it to other spells and basically eyeball it until it looks right.

 

[Visigani]

Y'all are dumm.


Unseen servant can attack by NOT attacking something. For example it can carry a vial of some terribly corrosive poison or somesuch and crush it next to the offending party.

Your suicidal Servant can carry remotely detonated bombs in a sly and thoughtful way.

What about yanking arrows out of a quiver and scattering them to the wind? Arrows do not meet the criteria for being attended objects (they are neither grasped, touched, nor worn if they are within a quiver... and for that matter... if you want to be very generous with an interpretation... neither is a sword in its scabbard).

 

[Greenfield]

Remote detonated bombs? I'm almost afraid to ask.

And I'd raise a serious argument if someone suggested that arrows (and other things carried) aren't "attended".

I mean, should Fireballs and similar effects automatically destroy arrows in a someone's quiver? Potions in a pouch? Treasure items in a backpack?

As for crushing a vial of corrosive... So you burn a hole in the floor, big deal. You only get splash damage for "hurled, grenade-like weapons" if they're <gasp> hurled. Besides, how would you rule whether the US was able to crush the vial? To do that you have to top the hardness and HP of the vial, and that's done based on damage dealt from an attack. And since the US can't make an attack, even on an inanimate object...

As a note, though, there's nothing in the Unseen Servant spell that limits it to handling unattended objects. Perhaps you're thinking of Mage Hand?

<edit>Additional thoughts on breaking a vial: An Unseen Servant has a Strength score of 2. It's damage, if damage were allowed, would be a D3 (unarmed attack) -4 (Strength adjustment). Now some give this a minimum of 1, some don't. It is, however, considered subduel damage since' it's unarmed and lacks the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, so it can't break anything. Even if it could, and even if we allowed for the minimum damage to be 1, Glass has a hardness of 1 and some non-zero number of hit points. The Unseen Servant couldn't do enough damage to break the vial.

It could carry the vial, and then drop a rock on it. All it needs to do is make a successful touch attack on the vial with the rock. Which takes us back to the fact that it can't roll an attack, no matter what.</edit>
<edit 2>Your description of attended/unattended seemed odd. From the SRD section on Saving Throws...

(object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature’s saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. (This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects.) A magic item’s saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + one-half the item’s caster level.

The highlighted section or similar text appears several times throughout the rules, and appear to be the only real definition of "attended". The underlined portion seems to suggest a broader interpretation than yours might be in order. </edit 2>

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Absolutely. Or push a rock off a high ledge, or tip over a kettle of boiling oil in a castle siege, etc.

What they can't do is make the attack roll needed to actually hit with the burning wood, the rock off the cliff, or the kettle of boiling water. Even a touch attack is still an attack.

Y'all are dumm.


Unseen servant can attack by NOT attacking something. For example it can carry a vial of some terribly corrosive poison or somesuch and crush it next to the offending party.

Your suicidal Servant can carry remotely detonated bombs in a sly and thoughtful way.

What about yanking arrows out of a quiver and scattering them to the wind? Arrows do not meet the criteria for being attended objects (they are neither grasped, touched, nor worn if they are within a quiver... and for that matter... if you want to be very generous with an interpretation... neither is a sword in its scabbard).

In the example in our game, the piece of burning wood was dropped upon an unconscious, negative HP but stable enemy. There was no attack roll to make, it simply carried the equivalent of a torch (holding a non-burning side of the wood) and dropped it onto the person. gravity over a non-moving individual assured the wood would land upon the person. Assuming the fire did 1 point of damage by itself un-stabilized the opponent, reducing it by 1 each round.
Tipping over a burning kettle would not require an attack roll. Pulling a lever that required less than 20lbs of pressure that released a boulder trap or dropped a chandler, placing a torch upon a pool of oil, poking a sleeping dragon in the eye... and so on, and so on.

 

[jcbdragon]

What they can't do is make the attack roll needed to actually hit with the burning wood, the rock off the cliff, or the kettle of boiling water. Even a touch attack is still an attack.

You don't need an attack roll for pushing a rock off a cliff or turning over a boiling kettle. These have no difference between the chance of success for a 0-level schmuck and a 20th-level PC.

 

[Greenfield]

Agreed. Pushing a rock off a cliff, overturning a kettle, or dropping a piece of burning wood are all simple actions, and don't call for a roll of any kind. (Okay, maybe a Strength check if the rock is heavy).

Pushing a rock off a cliff, overturning a kettle or dropping a piece of burning wood onto someone, however, is a different matter. You want to hit a specific target, you need an attack roll. Even a prone, helpless target still has a touch AC, and you still need to hit it.

DM can say otherwise, but that's how it rolls, by the book.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

SRD on Coup De Grace says:
"Coup de Grace As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.
You automatically hit and score a critical hit."

If you can intentionally kill someone without making an attack roll (Since you automatically hit), I'm thinking you can tip over a kettle in their direction, or drop a torch on thier body without needing to make an attack roll.

 

[Tharkon]

Absolutely. Or push a rock off a high ledge, or tip over a kettle of boiling oil in a castle siege, etc.

Push a rock, with a Strength of 2? Not likely.

Unseen servant can attack by NOT attacking something. For example it can carry a vial of some terribly corrosive poison or somesuch and crush it next to the offending party.

Don't forget the servant has to remain close (25ft. + 5ft/2 levels) to you.

Besides, how would you rule whether the US was able to crush the vial? To do that you have to top the hardness and HP of the vial, and that's done based on damage dealt from an attack. And since the US can't make an attack, even on an inanimate object...

I don't think you need to make an attack roll to crush something you're holding. A strength check perhaps if it's hard to crush.

 

[Lyrad8791]

Okay, so we have determined that an US can attack without attacking in some cases. Anyone have any ideas on the specifics of making a new US with attacking capabilities? Perhaps using lower level summoning spell then required for an Invisible Stalker and have it limited in range and hp just like the US. This would fit the criteria of a US being able to attack or stand guard I would think. Opinions? Ideas?