(Update) DM Decision: Player mistake- what would you do

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Just as a note, I seem to remember from my Planescape days that there's a layer of the Abyss that's just ... nothing ... forever. It appeared in a module, I want to say, and later in a cruddy Planescape novel. Some blokes rode a nalfeshee corpse for a while through it. First and last Planescape novel I ever tried to read.

--fje

 

[freebfrost]

First, I see that this was originally described as a pentagon, then later a pentagram. Which one was it?

Second, I'm getting the feeling that there is a lot more here that is still being unsaid. It is clear that you and her do not get along - whether it be because of personality clashes, different playing styles, poor communication or whatever. My question is do you really want her in your game or not? That is the real question you need to ask yourself.

 

[tonym]

Why couldn't the Time Lords have yoinked the rogue out of the pit and dropped her into the matrix, too? If you're looking for a way to save her character, that's it.

FWIW, what her character did was not that big of a deal. It was not suicidal, nor bad roleplaying, nor stupid. Just wacky.

It looks to me like this player brings some creativity to the table, and you don't like the added unpredictability. I think you need to relax a little and look for the good stuff the player adds to the game.

Tony M

 

[DonTadow]

ran5ting about your players here is not indicative of that.

which means since you know that and you accept the character you need to script and run gilligan appropriate scenarios. I mean gilligan's island would be pretty bad as a show if gilligan kept getting killed because the script put "too subtle for gilligan" death traps in rooms routinely.



that sounds about right. Sounds like a combo of "more interested in finding cool stuff than playing it safe" and from the response also "but protective circles are protective".

look, the "everything might be deadly so constantly be on guard and if you slip up you might die" is ONE STYLE of fantasy RPg play, not "the way". The comment you made before about how "in dnd you ought to do these things" is indicative of one style and i think we can all agree that is not her style.

sure there are plenty of DND style fantasy adventures where every button should be scanned for magic and traps and curses before you even consider touching it, but there are also other (and even DND style) adventures where more inquisitive, more impulsive characters motivated by novelty are appropriate too. In those the circle on the floor may lead to an endless pit, maybe even an endless pit of waste disposal, but once there (and you just know your kendar is gonna end up there) its not the Gm saying "yup, lotsa 'nuthin" but the Gm saying "and flaoting off in the distance you see a glow. As you move closer you realize its an old man who looks very bored." and from there we see a more "gilligan appropriate" resolution where the "gilligan move" doesn't lead to "lotsa 'nuthin" but to more opportunities for meetings.

Anyone can build a deathtrap that leads nowhere, especially if it doesn't have to make any sense. Its much harder but more rewarding to carry that "what if" further and have it be story/plot/cool inspiring instead of another dead PC moment.



why would there be hells of nothing but empty space?
what did this add to your game?
how was this interesting?
it seems like an in game lot of effort to create a dead end, right?

if it is endless with one or maybe a few entry spots, have others ended up there?
Are they still there?
did they leave anything behind?
do you age and get hungry there or persists in a perpetual ageless torment, trying to find a way out or maybe giving up and going mad?


so, in theory a lot of stuff has been dumped there over time... plot possibilities. Not a dead end unless you the Gm want it to be.

if gilligan had dropped into one of these, don't you bet he would have found something interesting or funny?


my mind is awash with how this isn't a dead character in a dead end situation. Many creatures and many out of hand magics got dumped here and left?!?!?!

man, that could be the most interesting prt of the whole adventure. i can see a typical butt dull dungeon crawl being the wrapper for "and here after tyhey get flushed the characters encounter an odd but interesting world of disposed and forgotten magics and from this the real adventure starts.

or it can be a character is dead now lets get back to the dragon killing thing too, i guess.

Hint" having a gilligan can be a blessing, not just a curse.

The point of the thread was to get advice on waht to do next (the rant was extra . And you're right, it would be an exciting scenerio to explore all the odd items that were down there. But then again, that whole lower level was full of artifact magic. The PCs, though were sent to retrieve one item, and were told through conversations that the place had been death of many adventurers, some of which had achieved power of near gods. I also hinted to the pcs that there would be challenges down here they would not be able to overcome, simply because the place is a high level magical fotress. However, the pcs didn't fall into the pentagram. That one pc did, and it seems far fetched to have as solo adventure for one player because they didn't look before they leaped.

Now as for the dimensional. Its not my idea. It's been one concept of hell for thousands of centuries and is dated as far back as hell being a burning pitt. As a matter of fact some believe hell is a burning endless pit.

I'm also misspeaking. I"m saying the pc is dead. You are right. The pc is not dead. The Pc coudl have found away out and could be alive. But for the most part, the pc is no longer with the party and is out of the campaign. It would take a heck of a lot of explaining to explain how the leaping PC
A. escaped the dimension (though you're right, i can magic that away)
B. found out where the pcs were (there is no knowledge of any timelords in any text)
C. traveled to the pcs location (they don't even know where they are)
D. rejoined the party (the party is currently in a fictional dimension of their imagination. )

Now, I did do some thinking and this scenerio could happen.

She finds a magical dudat or ally in the dimension. Working together they figure away out or the dudat works. To make things easier, she doesnt escape back to the place she disappeared (which itself is in a locked away dimension called the farplane) she manages to get back to the material world. There she pays for some super divination to find out whre the party is. She pays for some super magic to find out how to get to the party. she inacts a super rescue attempt. This is cool. For her.

But when i asked a couple other players after explaining to them how bad i felt about the situation (with her mind being distracted). I was given some good advice.

It wouldn't be fair to the other players if you jump through hurdles because she made a decsion for her character. If she decided todo that, then she suffers the consequences. You gave the party fair warning that this mission was dangerious and optional. There were tonso f things the party could have done but the party chose to do the big do and try to save the continent. There have already been two pc deaths down here, and there were no hurdles made to bring them back. I am sorry that her child was sick, but she should have left the game earlier if it was that bad. Its not fair to give players reasons for their characters to goof up. She chose to play the game by the rules, so she should live by them.

 

[billd91]

Why couldn't the Time Lords have yoinked the rogue out of the pit and dropped her into the matrix, too? If you're looking for a way to save her character, that's it.

I agree. This sort of setup is ideal for completely short-circuiting your problem. These time lords, if they're this intrusive, could go by 'guilt by association' and pull her in as well. And if you've already started them in this environment, working her in still shouldn't be too hard. Her unique situation could have meant it took the time lords longer to do it than usual. Or let them grow paranoid that she has been recruited by the time lords to help keep an eye on them as an inside agent.

If you're already using this level of manipulation of the PCs' environment, with a group capable of yanking them into a dreamworld like the Matrix, getting the rogue should be simple to justify.

 

[Arnwyn]

What would you do?

What would I do? Make her roll up a new character... but then, I don't mind vetting players' characters as much as you seem to.

Also, side question, What do you do with players whom continue to make character destroying stupid decisions?

Let them always die. Works for me.

 

[DonTadow]

Why couldn't the Time Lords have yoinked the rogue out of the pit and dropped her into the matrix, too? If you're looking for a way to save her character, that's it.

FWIW, what her character did was not that big of a deal. It was not suicidal, nor bad roleplaying, nor stupid. Just wacky.

It looks to me like this player brings some creativity to the table, and you don't like the added unpredictability. I think you need to relax a little and look for the good stuff the player adds to the game.

Tony M

I hadn't given much thought to that, because of how fast everything moved after she left. After her character fell into the pit, she left sometime after because of the family emergency. However, the rest of the players decided to move on and decided that her character was gone and forgotten. I'd already introduced the "new world" without her character in it. When the pcs asked about her, the npcs responded that no other bodies were found. It wouldnt make sense to the other players (after asking) if her character appears in the world now or for that matter was always there.

I didn't think my other players minded as much , but the two I talk to (the ones i bounce ideas off the most) seemed pretty adamant about having her character come back from the dead. After reading your post, I wrote up a scenerio where as a dark elf, she was immune to the "matrix world" and thus could not be introduced into the world, but they are still keeping her alive somewhere in their place trying to probe her memories for an accuarate account of what happened.

::another reason why like to post these questions it gets me to brainstorming::

However, this is the players campaign not mine, and I can see why they'd be pissed off if i go through these hurdles for the player. Heck, I still think that some type of permanent injunction should happen to her character as well. If i did bring her back, what type of penalties shoudl her character have?

 

[Oryan77]

Don't bring her character back. That will only cause you future frustration. She wanted to see what the trap did without taking precautions, so she got what she deserved. She already wasn't worried about dying, and if you bring her PC back, she will never worry about dying because she'll think she can get away with any action she takes.

I wouldn't have used an insta-kill trap like that anyway without some way to allow clever ideas to save the PC's. You could have done this, but you already declared her dead. I would stick with your original outcome and keep her dead. Penalize her with your normal rules for creating new PC's after old PC's die, and if she still doesn't care about keeping her PC alive, keep killing her off but make new harsher penalties for creating new PC's...maybe start out 2 lvls lower. Either way you win...she gets tired of always playing low lvl pc's and she performs better in game, or she gets annoyed with your absurd rules and she quits.

 

[domino]

Quick question. She said she was "going by it, searching it," trying to learn more.

Why did you not give her a search check to find the trap?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea.

In fact, NOT doing so just really sounds like bad grapes to me.

If you're going to walk in with this Deus Ex situation where ultra-powerful things are everywhere and all of the PCs are but pawns in the games of extra-super-mega-over-Gods and everything can blast them to splinders or make them Gods or just give them really bad gas with the merest touch, and yet they have to make it through without touching the WRONG super-mega-godhood item...

Why on earth NOT? Getting yanked out of Nowhereville 90210 and slapped into The Matrix is just as unbelievable as getting yanked out of All The Magic Exploded Because We Opened The Box and slapped into The Matrix ... when you're THAT FAR OUT THERE ...

I have to say, man, that if this sort of plotline is indicative of what your games are like, then NO WONDER somebody has problems figuring things out. I'd have probably run screaming into the night after a few sessions. It sounds like you have some meta-conscious super-plot based around a reality entirely of your own imagining and you can use it as you wish and everybody else has to figure out what you're thinking. Gods and super-items and Time Lords and entire dimensions created for the sole purpose of dumping the kitchen leavings. Boot up the TARDIS and have Dr. Who rumble on by and save her.

--fje