Update: Sorcerer/MotAO/ES (Air) for RttToEE.

[bertman4]

The following recommendation was downloaded from a website, but I do not remember which website. If you are the author of this document, let me know and I will give you full credit.

Bertman

Spell selection for the sorcerer
This list makes the following assumptions:
*The player has the intention ot peak at 10th level
*The player is prepared to ignore certain spells, to become even stronger later on
*The character is the primary combat oriented spellcaster in the group - if not, it would be wiser to turn to more 'streetwise" spells

0-level
Read Magic
Detect Magic
Light
Open/Close
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Daze
Detect Poison
Arcane Mark

1st-level
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Shield
Identify
Charm Person

2nd-level
Protection from Arrows
Mirror Image
See Invisible
Bulls Strength

3rd-level
Fireball!
Fly
Tongues

4th-level
Improved Invisibility
Stoneskin

5th-level
Teleport

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

There are several spells on that list that would make very poor choices for a sorceror/MotAO in a party with multiple clerics.

Level 1:
Mage armor--long duration, only first level--use the spell pool to get it.
Identify--a poor choice for a sorceror in general (pay someone else to cast it or buy scrolls) but a completely senseless choice for a sorceror/Mage of the Arcane Order. If there was ever a spellpool spell, it's Identify.

Level 2:
I'm not really a fan of mirror image but some people like it
Protection from arrows has a reasonable duration but not an especially long one--still, in most campaigns, I haven't seen it to be useful enough for a sorceror's known spell. (My Living Greyhawk character has had it for 3 levels and has only cast it about five times. Out of those five times, it's only stopped damage once--the other times, nobody hit the target with arrows.)
Bull's Strength: in a party with 2 clerics, bull's strength is their job. If you're going to get a buff spell and not rely on spellpool for that (a viable option given the long duration), get something the clerics can't cast (Cat's Grace is a good choice).

Level 3:
Tongues: is not generally a top pick for sorcerors--especially not in a combat heavy campaign like RttToEE. It's useful in a rather limited range of circumstances so a sorceror can just by a couple of scrolls and probably have it available any time he would need it for the rest of his career. Anyway, if you need it, you can get it from the spellpool. An extra couple of rounds won't hurt.

Level 4:
Stoneskin is a good spell but it has a rather expensive material component so I don't imagine that a sorceror would be casting it multiple times (which is really the strength of a sorceror--he doesn't know many spells but he can cast the ones he does know a whole lot).
Polymorph self and polymorph other are rather conspicuous in their absence from this list as well--at least one of them should be in a sorceror's repertoire.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Pick whatever class, spells, feats you want. None of it will help you...your blood will spill on the cold stone and life will slip away from you...your character is truly doomed.

I wonderered when you, MY DM, would rear your ugly head. Is it any wonder that my DM wants us PC's to be good or neutral with good tendencies? SINCE HE IS PURE EVIL, do you understand why I need to Min/Max my PC?

 

[Corwin the Confused]

3rd DRAFT

As stated above this is my third draft. Please let me know what you all think.

Str 13
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 18

When should I take Improved Familiar, if ever (even though they do not seem too much better).

1st Lvl Sorc 1
0th Lvl Spell: Det Magic, Read Magic, Ray of Frost, Dancing Lights
1st Lvl Spell: Magic Missle, Shield
Feat: Arcane Preparation, Silent Spell

2nd Lvl Sorc 2
0th Lvl Spell: Disrupt Undead

I am currently this level:
3rd Lvl Sorc 3
1st Lvl Spell: Burning Hands (Refl Sv ½)
Feat: Sculpt Spell

4th Lvl Sorc 4
0th Lvl Spell: Light
2nd Lvl Spell: Glitterdust (Will Sv)
Ability +1 Charisma (19)

5th Lvl Sorc 5
1st Lvl Spell: Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd Lvl Spell: Ice Knife (Fort Sv)

6th Lvl Sorc 6
0th Lvl Spell: Prestidigitation
3rd Lvl Spell: Haste
Feat: Cooperative Spell

7th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 1
(Spellpool I)
1st Lvl Spell: Grease
2nd Lvl Spell: Blindness/Deafness
3rd Lvl Spell: Slow

8th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 2
1st Lvl Spell:
4th Lvl Spell: Evard’s Black Tentacles
Ability +1 Charisma (20)
Feat: Extend Spell

9th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 3
3rd Lvl Spell: Lightening Bolt (Ref Sv)
4th Lvl Spell: Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Feat: Energy Substitution: Sonic

10th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 4
(Spellpool II)
0th Lvl Spell: ????
5th Lvl Spell: Teleport
5th Lvl Spell: Ghostform

11th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 5
2nd Lvl Spell: ????
3rd Lvl Spell: Fireball (Ref Sv ½ )
4th Lvl Spell: Wall of Ice
5th Lvl Spell: Wall of Force

12th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 6
6th Lvl Spell: Greater Dispelling
Ability +1 Charisma (21)
Feat: Persistent Spell

13th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 7
(Spellpool III)
4th Lvl Spell: Enervation (No Sv)
5th Lvl Spell:Wall of Iron
6th Lvl Spell: Mass Haste

14th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 8
7th Lvl Spell: Limited Wish

15th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 9
5th Lvl Spell: Telekinesis
6th Lvl Spell: Chain Lightening
7th Lvl Spell: Prismatic Spray
Feat: Quicken Spell
Feat: Spell Focus: Evocation


16thLvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10
2nd Lvl Spell:
6th Lvl Spell: Disintegrate
7th Lvl Spell: Delayed Blast Fireball
8th Lvl Spell: Sunburst
Ability +1 Charisma (22)

17th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 11 – (I know that I’ll nee my DM to extent MotAO past 10th)
7th Lvl Spell: Reverse Gravity
8th Lvl Spell: Maze

18th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 12
9th Lvl Spell: Time Stop
Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation

19th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 13
8th Lvl Spell: Otto’s Irresistible Dance
9th Lvl Spell: Meteor Swarm

20th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 14
9th Lvl Spell: Bigby’s Crushing Hand
Ability +1 Charisma (23)

Thank you all for the help!

 

[warhookdm]

That doesn't look too bad. 1 question comes to mind, however. If you are the only arcane caster, WHY do you keep showing the cooperative spell feat? (If its required for Arcane order, ignore this.) Also, I strongly recommend Enlarge Spell, but not until 3rd level. The silent spell I would probably replace with either Improved Initiative (if you get the jump on opponents, you have a greater chance of surviving) or Weapon Focus - Lt. Crossbow.

An earlier post suggested taking a Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass.
While it sounds strange as such, it is a lethally effective combo. I have a Pal7/Sor4/SpSwd4 I am running at present. My caster level is 6, I ignore 15% of my 25% spell failure, and my saves are enough to make most DM's ill. Sir Robert's WEAK save is reflex, and it is in the teens (Cha = 20; +5 to ALL saves; also can Lay on hands for 35 pts per day, and cast CLW and Bless a couple times per day).

If you do go this route, Bull's strength is a good spell to have, and your first L3 spell should be displacement (50% miss chance; like blink defensively, but without the 20% chance that YOU blink at the wrong moment and miss .)

1 final comment; Persistant spell feat is among the more useless of the metamagics; with the exception of shield, once you reach 12th level caster, an extend spell puts all your best buffs up for 24 hours, and uses a lower spell slot to do it than persistant does.

good luck!

 

[bret]

Just so people reading this know:
MotAO requirements:
Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks
Two metamagic feats, one of which must be Cooperative Spell
Ability to prepare and cast arcane spells of 2nd level or higher.
Special: Pay an initiation fee of 750 gp.

As stated in the thread a few times, the big advantage of this PrC for sorcerers is access to the spell pool. The requirement to prepare arcane spells is handled by the Arcane Preparation feat.

 

[green slime]

Commenting on the 3rd Draft:

• Slow:I'd dump this for an earlier fireball, or a polymorph self or a fly
• Minor Globe of Invulnerability: I'd get rid of as well; long term, its a flop. Earlier Enervation or Improved Invisibility will see longer term battle use, IMO.
• Mass Haste: I'd leave it at Haste and the Chain Spell feat. OK, so it is one level higher, still, you need to treat your spell slots with caution. You maybe able to weedle a Mass Haste out of the spell pool. I'd take Acid Fog instead, it acts as a super effective Slow spell that causes damage.
• Chain Lightning:Grab Antimagic Field instead to aid the fighter, and let him supress summoned monsters.
• Wall of Iron?:What's with all these wall spells? Planning on Walling people to death? Why not Feeblemind?
• Empty 2nd level slot at 11th:Rope Trick is always handy...
• 11th level MotAO: is an Epic class level, your DM may shoot you if you suggest this...

That'll have to do for now, Work calls

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Commenting on the 3rd Draft:

• Slow:I'd dump this for an earlier fireball, or a polymorph self or a fly
• Minor Globe of Invulnerability: I'd get rid of as well; long term, its a flop. Earlier Enervation or Improved Invisibility will see longer term battle use, IMO.
  
  My last wizard died a few times because of 1st-3rd level spells. So I think I want to keep it. Do the rest of you think that it is too easliy dispelled??
  
  

  [*]Mass Haste: I'd leave it at Haste and the Chain Spell feat. OK, so it is one level higher, still, you need to treat your spell slots with caution. You maybe able to weedle a Mass Haste out of the spell pool. I'd take Acid Fog instead, it acts as a super effective Slow spell that causes damage.
  
  I though that if I quickened a Haste and then cast a Mass Haste.
  But I see your point and I will pick up the a Rod with the Chain Feat for 27,200 gp
  
  

  [*]Chain Lightning:Grab Antimagic Field instead to aid the fighter, and let him supress summoned monsters.

• 
  But then I would have to be 10' from the BBEG and while in it I'd have an AC 13 and no spells that I could use. then the BBEG takes a 5'step and he is out of the field.
  
  

  [*]Wall of Iron?:What's with all these wall spells? Planning on Walling people to death? Why not Feeblemind?[/B]

  
  Well, I guess I am going to wall off some nasties of atleast help protect our flank. As far as feeblemind goes, I never cast it against a BBEWizard even though I had it memorized most of the time. Also, I think there will be more Wis based Cleric than Int base Wizards in The Temple of Elemental Evil .
  
  

  [*]Empty 2nd level slot at 11th:Rope Trick is always handy...[/B]

  
  I thought that I could get that from the Spell Pool. Any other suggestions for 2nd Lvl spell?
  
  

  [*]11th level MotAO: is an Epic class level, your DM may shoot you if you suggest this...

[/B]

Oh, I thought that you could extend any prestige class at any time. Can you only do it when you are Epic Lvl?

 

[Caliber]

Prestige Classes are limited to the their level chart into post-Epic levels.

ie. unless you are Epic, 10 level Prestige Classes are limited to 10 levels.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

3rd DRAFT

As stated above this is my third draft. Please let me know what you all think.

Str 13
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 18

Looks good so far.

When should I take Improved Familiar, if ever (even though they do not seem too much better).

1st Lvl Sorc 1
0th Lvl Spell: Det Magic, Read Magic, Ray of Frost, Dancing Lights
1st Lvl Spell: Magic Missle, Shield
Feat: Arcane Preparation, Silent Spell

I'd skip ray of frost and go for Presdigitation instead. It's one of the most versatile 0-level spells and to be honest, if you ever reach the point that you're pulling out rays of frost, you're better off using your crossbow.

2nd Lvl Sorc 2
0th Lvl Spell: Disrupt Undead

An OK choice but not of too much long-term utility. (And not much better than a crossbow either). I'd go for Mage Hand or Open/Close.

I am currently this level:
3rd Lvl Sorc 3
1st Lvl Spell: Burning Hands (Refl Sv ½)
Feat: Sculpt Spell

4th Lvl Sorc 4
0th Lvl Spell: Light
2nd Lvl Spell: Glitterdust (Will Sv)
Ability +1 Charisma (19)

5th Lvl Sorc 5
1st Lvl Spell: Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd Lvl Spell: Ice Knife (Fort Sv)

I'm not sure what you see in Ice Knife. As far as I can tell, it's an all-around inferior spell. I'd pick up acid arrow instead. It does more damage and has no save.

6th Lvl Sorc 6
0th Lvl Spell: Prestidigitation
3rd Lvl Spell: Haste
Feat: Cooperative Spell

7th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 1
(Spellpool I)
1st Lvl Spell: Grease
2nd Lvl Spell: Blindness/Deafness
3rd Lvl Spell: Slow

Grease isn't that good of a spell by this point. Sure, spell resistance doesn't apply but if a Balor shows up are you really going to Grease his sword? I'd pick up True Strike instead. When Quickened, or when you're hasted, you'll be able to use it to ensure a hit with an enervation, acid arrow, or disintegrate.

Slow is a great spell too. It's a perfectly viable option and is better than fireball when facing major villains.

8th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 2
1st Lvl Spell:
4th Lvl Spell: Evard’s Black Tentacles
Ability +1 Charisma (20)
Feat: Extend Spell

9th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 3
3rd Lvl Spell: Lightening Bolt (Ref Sv)
4th Lvl Spell: Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Feat: Energy Substitution: Sonic

Minor Globe of Invulnerability is something of an odd choice--if you want defense, there are better spells. It also doesn't scale very well--by the time you hit 10th level, you'll be begging your foes to hit you with level 3 or lower spells. Heck, you'll probably volunteer to fail your saves as long as they don't toss Destruction, Flame Strike, or Disintegrate your way.

I'd pick up Polymorph Self or Polymorph Other instead.

10th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 4
(Spellpool II)
0th Lvl Spell: ????
5th Lvl Spell: Teleport
5th Lvl Spell: Ghostform

11th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 5
2nd Lvl Spell: ????
3rd Lvl Spell: Fireball (Ref Sv ½ )
4th Lvl Spell: Wall of Ice
5th Lvl Spell: Wall of Force

Web is a useful 2nd level spell. Detect Thoughts and See Invisibility are good too though.

As others have said, one wall spell should be enough. Decide what you want to use it for--Wall of Force is great for battlefield control but Wall of Stone is much more flexible. I'd stick with one of those two and ditch wall of Ice for Improved Invisibility or Enervation.

12th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 6
6th Lvl Spell: Greater Dispelling
Ability +1 Charisma (21)
Feat: Persistent Spell

I'd drop persistent spell. The only spell you have to use it on is Shield. If you sub Quicken spell in here, it'll fill much the same role. (Although at somewhat higher cost). And it will enable you o use quickened offensive spells.

13th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 7
(Spellpool III)
4th Lvl Spell: Enervation (No Sv)
5th Lvl Spell:Wall of Iron
6th Lvl Spell: Mass Haste

You may pick up enervation earlier. If you do, consider improved Invisibility, whichever of the polymorph spells you don't already have, or Arcane Eye or something.

One wall spell is enough. I'd pick up Energy Buffer (my recommended choice--the only elemental protection that doesn't require foreknowledge of your opponents) Cone of Cold, hold monster, or Magic Jar instead of Wall of Iron.

Mass Haste is a great spell but if you've already got haste, I'd consider using the chain spell feat instead. Other good spells at this level include Summon Monster VI, Disintegrate, and Eyebite (an excellent spell for a sorceror since it has multiple potential effects).

14th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 8
7th Lvl Spell: Limited Wish

15th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 9
5th Lvl Spell: Telekinesis
6th Lvl Spell: Chain Lightening
7th Lvl Spell: Prismatic Spray
Feat: Quicken Spell
Feat: Spell Focus: Evocation

Looking at this, you've got two feats listed. You don't get to do that. I'd consider Spell Penetration instead of Spell Focus. Your charisma should be high enough (especially with a cloak of charisma or Eagle's Splendor) to mitigate the need for spell focus but there's nothing else you can do about Spell Resistance.

If you want to do something other than Sor 10/MotAO 10, I'd recommend biting the bullet and picking up another Elemental Substitution here so you can finish up with Elemental Savant levels. Either that, or Great Fortitude for Candlecaster levels or whatever's needed for Archmage levels (if you can convince your DM to allow FRCS prestige classes).

Telekinesis is an interesting choice as well but probably not the best. Give me energy buffer or cone of cold over it any day of the week.

Chain Lightning is a good spell but somewhat redundant. A sculpted, empowered Lightning bolt should do you just as well. I'd pick up Eyebite or disintegrate or something else instead.

Prismatic Spray doesn't really seem like a very effective spell to me either. The majority of the possible effects aren't that impressive for a 7th level spell and some of them are downright weak (20hp fire damage?!?). Energy Immunity, Summon Monster VII (Celestial Elephant or multiple celestial dire bears, or a celestial unicorn to heal, etc.), Finger of Death, and Reverse Gravity are all better choices.

16thLvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10
2nd Lvl Spell:
6th Lvl Spell: Disintegrate
7th Lvl Spell: Delayed Blast Fireball
8th Lvl Spell: Sunburst
Ability +1 Charisma (22)

Hey, more 2nd level spells: Mirror Image, Web, Fog Cloud, and Daylight might still be useful.

Delayed Blast Fireball is a pathetic excuse for a 7th level spell. Sculpt a Cone of Cold into a 20' spread and you've got the same damage cap at one level lower. I'd pick up One of the other 7th levels instead. Energy Immunity, Summon Monster VII, Finger of Death, Reverse Gravity, and even Mordenkainen's Sword are all better choices.

I'd go for Horrid Wilting over Sunburst myself. Mind Blank and Symbol (the flexibility is great for sorcerors) would also be good choices.

17th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 11 – (I know that I’ll nee my DM to extent MotAO past 10th)
7th Lvl Spell: Reverse Gravity
8th Lvl Spell: Maze

18th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 12
9th Lvl Spell: Time Stop
Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation

I'd go for Greater Spell Penetration instead.

Time Stop is a good choice but all of the tactics I've heard of using it seem a bit cheesy. I'd be tempted to go for Gate or Imprisonment instead.

19th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 13
8th Lvl Spell: Otto’s Irresistible Dance
9th Lvl Spell: Meteor Swarm

If you don't have Mind Blank yet, get it. IIRC, Spell Pool can't give you 8th level spells and Mind Blank is a must have. Not only does it save you from scrying but it renders you immune to mind-effecting spells as well. No feeblemind or Maze will touch you. . . .

I'd forget about Meteor Swarm too. Gate or Imprisonment are better choices. Wail of the banshee and Shapechange aren't bad either.

20th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 14
9th Lvl Spell: Bigby’s Crushing Hand
Ability +1 Charisma (23)

Definitely something else. The Bigby's hand spells really aren't that impressive. I'd get Gate, Imprisonment, Wail of the Banshee, or Shapechange instead.

Thank you all for the help!

You're welcome.