Update: Sorcerer/MotAO/ES (Air) for RttToEE.

[bret]

Look at it this way, in order to get into the PrC you have to get the elemental substitution for the element you like.

Once you have that substitution, it doesn't matter which of the elements the original spell used. You can turn it into a spell using your element.

Seems fine to me.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Hmmmmmm, does anybody else want to chime in on this?

 

[mooby]

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GO WIZARD!!! (with the following condition). If your DM actually makes it possible for you to use item creation feats, the wizard will wipe the floor with the sorcerer because of the free scribe scrolls feat at 1st level. The XP cost is close to nill for scrolls and you can make them extremely cheaply. If your DM plans on having you enter the module at 4th (the recommended) you will have those 4 levels to scribe as many scrolls as you have money for ahead of time. Thus, your goal should be to learn every spell you can - researching, buying, and defeating other casters. While the sorcerer has more spells per day than a wizard. A wizard with scribe scroll will have more spells than a sorcerer at a very low cost and have much greater diversity of spells. The scrolls only take a day each to make and at higher levels (higher than first) you can for example make a scroll of color spray at caster level 1 and it will be incredibly cheap. If you focus on making spells that you can minimize your caster level you will save a lot of money.

Wizards also incentivize high Int as opposed to Chr with Sorcerers. Int provides bonus skill points while Chr provides no extra bonus at all. Wizards have access to far more PrC's - usually at earlier levels (meaning you can increase your Saves at earlier levels). And wizards get the extra feat(s).

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Yeah, but sorcerers are just so much cooler!

 

[Corwin the Confused]

HELP with 4th Lvl Spells...please

I just wanted to give an update on my 8th lvl Human Sorc 6/ MotAO 2. I decided not to blow a feat on an improved familiar and I got a toad for the Con boost. I posted the latest progression below. There have been some changes from the original below the below.

I have descent hit points because of the toad, but my AC blows without shield or a scroll of Mage Armour, but such is the life of a Mage who likes 0% spell failure, with no money for Mithral.

Some of my party members have been less than happy with my spell selections (i.e. the lack of BUFFS) but I have been very effective with Sculpted Burning Hands and now Fireball. I was happy that I purchased scrolls of the spells that I don't know. They really came in useful and were a major factor in battles that could have been TPK's. It also keeps the party’s complaining down a lot.


I have the following stats:

Str 13
Dex 16 + 2(gloves of dex) = 18
Con 15 + 2(toad) = 17
Int 14 <===this stat is killing me for skill points and don't get me started about why a Sorc doesn't get a Char based class skills
Wis 13
Cha 18 + 2(Lvl) + 2(cloak of Char) = 22

Feats: Arcane Preparation (I use this all the time so that I can get off my Sculpted Burning Hands and more in one round.), Cooperative Spell (I know that this is a lame prerequisite but it might come in handy if I get a Simulacrum.), Energy Substitution: Sonic (I’ll get Empower next Lvl.) Sculpt Spell (Awesome for +1 Lvl.), Silent Spell (I have yet to use this one, but I am warm and fuzzy inside knowing it’s there in case a nasty cleric casts Silence on me.)

0th Lvl Spell: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic

1st Lvl Spell: Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement (I have yet to use this one.), Sheild, True Strike (I have yet to use this one.)

2nd Lvl Spell: Blur (Not on my original list and I wish that it wasn’t won of my spells and I think that Blindness/Deafness would have been better.), Glitterdust, Melf’s Acid Arrow

3rd Lvl Spell: Fireball (I couldn’t resist because I like it when THINGS GET BLOWED UP REAL GOOD ) , Slow

Here is my quandary:
4th Lvl Spell: I guess I am not too pumped on any of the fourth Lvl spells. I am leaning towards Improved Invisibility first.
Evard’s Black Tentacles seems weak since it grapples on the your turn after it appears. So can’t the other caster just move out of the way? Also then the fighters would complain about having to kill my tentacles after the encounter was over.
I think that I should take Polymorph Other instead of Polymorph Self because Poly Other can be used as a buff and an attack. Also in our last campaign the Wizard would always Poly Self and wade into battle. This takes some of the fun away for the fighters and is very munchkiny.
Just how good is Enervation? I like the no save thing but I am unsure.

Please reassure me or give me other suggestions for 4th Lvl Spells



Str 13
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 18



1st Lvl Sorc 1
0th Lvl Spell: Det Magic, Read Magic, Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights
1st Lvl Spell: Magic Missle, Shield
Feat: Arcane Preparation, Silent Spell

2nd Lvl Sorc 2
0th Lvl Spell: Mage Hand

I am currently this level:
3rd Lvl Sorc 3
1st Lvl Spell: Burning Hands (Refl Sv ½)
Feat: Sculpt Spell

4th Lvl Sorc 4
0th Lvl Spell: Light
2nd Lvl Spell: Glitterdust (Will Sv)
Ability +1 Charisma (19)

5th Lvl Sorc 5
1st Lvl Spell: Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd Lvl Spell: Melf’s Acid Arrow (Ok, Elder-Basilisk, Ice Knife is gone and but is Acid Arrow forbidden for Elemental Savant Air or just Energy Substitution Acid?)

6th Lvl Sorc 6
0th Lvl Spell: Mage Hand
3rd Lvl Spell: Haste
Feat: Cooperative Spell

7th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 1
(Spellpool I)
1st Lvl Spell: True Strike
2nd Lvl Spell: Blindness/Deafness
3rd Lvl Spell: Slow

8th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 2
1st Lvl Spell:
4th Lvl Spell: Evard’s Black Tentacles
Ability +1 Charisma (20)
Feat: Empower Spell

9th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 3
3rd Lvl Spell: Lightening Bolt (Ref Sv)
4th Lvl Spell: Enervation
Feat: Energy Substitution: Sonic

10th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 4
(Spellpool II)
0th Lvl Spell: Open/Close
5th Lvl Spell: Teleport
5th Lvl Spell: Ghostform

11th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 5
2nd Lvl Spell: Detect Thoughts
3rd Lvl Spell: Fireball (Ref Sv ½ )
4th Lvl Spell: Improved Invisibility (Ok, everyone I have only one Wall.)
5th Lvl Spell: Wall of Force

12th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 6
6th Lvl Spell: Greater Dispelling
Ability +1 Charisma (21)
Feat: Quicken Spell


13th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 7
(Spellpool III)
4th Lvl Spell: Polymorph Self
5th Lvl Spell: Energy Buffer
6th Lvl Spell: Eye Bite

14th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 8
7th Lvl Spell: Limited Wish

15th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 9
5th Lvl Spell: Cone of Cold
6th Lvl Spell: Antimagic Field
7th Lvl Spell: Summon Monster VII
Feat: Spell Penetration
Feat: Energy Substitution: Electricity


16thLvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10
2nd Lvl Spell: Mirror Image
6th Lvl Spell: Disintegrate
7th Lvl Spell: Finger of Death
8th Lvl Spell: Symbol
Ability +1 Charisma (22)

17th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10/ ES (Air) 1
7th Lvl Spell: Reverse Gravity
8th Lvl Spell: Maze

18th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10/ ES (Air) 2
9th Lvl Spell: Time Stop
Feat: Greater Spell Penetration

19th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10/ ES (Air) 3
8th Lvl Spell: Otto’s Irresistible Dance (With Mind Blank’s day long duration I could get it from the Spell Pool.)
9th Lvl Spell: Gate

20th Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 10/ ES (Air) 4
9th Lvl Spell: Wail of the Banshee
Ability +1 Charisma (23)

21st Lvl Sorc 6/MotAO 11/ ES (Air) 5
What spell do I get at 21st level?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Hmm. I definitely agree with you re: Blur. It would make a lousy first level spell. . . and you've got it at second. Oh well. On the plus side it is instant unsneakattackability. And since it's verbal only, you can cast it on your friends even when held using silent spell (delivered through your familiar).

Given the situation, I'd go for either Improved Invisibility, Enervation or Polymorph Other at this point. Your problem with using Poly other on yourself is that, since you don't have Dispel Magic and it's not Dismissable, you could get yourself (or your party members) in trouble by polymorphing them and not being able to get them back. Even so, Poly Other is a great attack spell. And, it can be used as a buff spell in a pinch (although I think it's pretty cheesy). I've never run a character who used enervation but it looks great on paper. -1d4 to everything (attacks, saves, damage, etc.) and lose the highest 1d4 spells prepared and if you're up against a levelled villain, you can kill them with a few of them as well. On average, a level ten villain will go down to four enervations. Improved Invisibility would help make up for your AC and it would be a good buff for the party's rogues. Putting it on the party's fighters might not be such a hot idea though since the bad guys would they can't do their job as meatshields as well if they're invisible.

Alternately, you might want to take Confusion. It's really good for large numbers of low will save baddies.

So, if not Evard's Black Tentacles, I'd take one of the following:
Polymorph other, Confusion, Enervation, Improved Invisibility

BTW: Why do you need to buy scrolls of Mage Armor anymore? If I were you, I'd spell pool it. (And a Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace or GMW to help out the fighters).

 

[mooby]

May I suggest a Squirrel or Fox Familiar. A +2 Reflex save could possibly be more useful than an extra HP/Level, but the real boost is that Foxes and Squirrels can just do more than a Toad ever could.

 

[bret]

I would go with Enervation or Improved Invisibility for your 4th level spell.

Enervation is great for spellcasters.

Improved Invisibility assumes that there is a rogue in the group.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Hmm. I definitely agree with you re: Blur. It would make a lousy first level spell. . . and you've got it at second. Oh well. On the plus side it is instant unsneakattackability. And since it's verbal only, you can cast it on your friends even when held using silent spell (delivered through your familiar).

Yes it is quite lame.

Given the situation, I'd go for either Improved Invisibility, Enervation or Polymorph Other at this point. Your problem with using Poly other on yourself is that, since you don't have Dispel Magic and it's not Dismissable, you could get yourself (or your party members) in trouble by polymorphing them and not being able to get them back.

How do you use polymorph other on yourself? And I can get dispel from the Spell Pool. And I thought if I needed Poly Self, I could get it from the spell pool since it is usually a one shot/day spell.

Even so, Poly Other is a great attack spell. And, it can be used as a buff spell in a pinch (although I think it's pretty cheesy). I've never run a character who used enervation but it looks great on paper. -1d4 to everything (attacks, saves, damage, etc.) and lose the highest 1d4 spells prepared and if you're up against a levelled villain, you can kill them with a few of them as well. On average, a level ten villain will go down to four enervations. Improved Invisibility would help make up for your AC and it would be a good buff for the party's rogues. Putting it on the party's fighters might not be such a hot idea though since the bad guys would they can't do their job as meatshields as well if they're invisible.

Alternately, you might want to take Confusion. It's really good for large numbers of low will save baddies.

So, if not Evard's Black Tentacles, I'd take one of the following:
Polymorph other, Confusion, Enervation, Improved Invisibility.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a closer look at them and get back to you. But do you agree that Evard's is weak if the other spell caster will just move out of the area?

BTW: Why do you need to buy scrolls of Mage Armor anymore? If I were you, I'd spell pool it. (And a Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace or GMW to help out the fighters).

I really don't have to buy any now. I bought them at low level. Just in case. And I am keeping them just in case I need it in during a single round that I have to move.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm really fond of solid fog. the 6th elvel acid fog is nice too though I'm not sure its worth 2 levels to do 2d6 damage a round, though I guess at least it forces concentration checks onthose trying to teleport out. Anyway I think solid fog s a great tactical spell. It creates a nice big fog bank that also slows movemet down to 1/10th it's rate. I frequently would throw a slow, then a sloid fog, and then unleash hell into the fog.(this is where evadrs gets nasty, the one round set up doesn't matter when people ahve trouble seeing and moving) It got insanely brutal when the cleric got 6th level spells and would throw a blade barrier into the mix.

I generally avoid the poly spells because they are broken IMO.(the buffing angle mainly) But looking at our 2 primary attack spells fireball, and slow, that gives you a reflex and will save based spells, so poly other with its fort save might really round out your attack spells.

Enervation rocks read up on level loss, you might be able to convince your DM that the -5hp part of it would also apply to enervaiton. Even without that it's a great spell. Me though with the no save aspect I think it's very much a wand spell, and for a sorcerer I'd suaulyl jsut buy the wand. That's probably not an option though in that adventure, Homlet isn't a metropolis, or at least it wasn't in the original.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Update

After having finished the module, I want to thank you all for all the suggestions. This was an excellent PC in the RttToEE and I am sure that he would be in most dungeon crawls. He was very fun to play!

Thanks again!