UPDATE: Uncanny Dodge - when does it work?

[Artoomis]

Here's the final(?) word on Uncanny Dodge. Having conferred with Skip Williams, Andy Collins and WotC Customer Service, I have concluded that the original intent of

...She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

was to restrict the time she retains her Dex bonus to AC to only two instances, in other words, it should have been:

...She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) when she is either caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

So I'll concede that this way is the rule. I think it needs errata, because the actual language states (or at least very strongly implies) that other conditions may exists where she could retain for Dex bonus to AC.

I wish WotC could get world-class editing on staff and avoid such issues. Ah well ... "if wishes were horses, then beggers would ride."

I consider this issue settled, for whatever that's worth.

 

[MarauderX]

hm... I think you are missing some conditions to which is applies, but all in all I think you are splitting hairs to begin with. There may only be the two conditions to which the Dex bonus is kept when normally it is lost, but IMO you still need to define when you do lose the Dex bonus.
Keeping the sentence "However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized" is a must just to clarify the issue further, but is not entirely needed.

Thanks for getting the 'final' word from Skip, Andy and WotC.

 

[Darkness]

I wish WotC could get world-class editing on staff and avoid such issues.

Heck, it would even help a lot if they made it a policy to answer rules questions on their message boards. As it stands, the answers to some questions are hard to come by.

 

[Steverooo]

Other such...

There are other such situations where a Rogue loses her DEX bonus to AC, such as when balancing with four or fewer Ranks, for example...

 

[Camarath]

I wish WotC could get world-class editing on staff and avoid such issues. Ah well ... "if wishes were horses, then beggers would ride."

If wishes were horses, I think we would all die buried under a squirming screaming mass of horse flesh at least a mile deep.

I am glad this issue has been resolved for you Artoomis. I am sorry that I did not do a better job of explaining that the additional situations that the rule alludes to are meant to be the normal situations a character retains his Dex bonus in. I hope that in the future other rules prove to be as interestingly divisive as this one turn out to be. It was a fun debate and a fascinating post-debate backlash.

 

[Artoomis]

hm... I think you are missing some conditions to which is applies, but all in all I think you are splitting hairs to begin with. There may only be the two conditions to which the Dex bonus is kept when normally it is lost, but IMO you still need to define when you do lose the Dex bonus.
Keeping the sentence "However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized" is a must just to clarify the issue further, but is not entirely needed.

Thanks for getting the 'final' word from Skip, Andy and WotC.

Actually, no I am not mising any other conditions, at least per Sikip, Andy and Customer Service.

I think that other conditions may exists, but the closest thing we have to an official stance is that they do not.

So I am satisified as to the official ruling. The second sentence is entirely superflous, at least as far as WotC folks are concerned.

 

[Camarath]

So I am satisified as to the official ruling. The second sentence is entirely superflous, at least as far as WotC folks are concerned.

I am pretty sure that the second sentence is meant to indicate that the a character with Uncanny Dodge who is immobilized will not be able to retain his dex when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker by despite of the fact that Uncanny Dodge normally allows him to retain his dex in those situations.

 

[Artoomis]

I am pretty sure that the second sentence is meant to indicate that the a character with Uncanny Dodge who is immobilized will not be able to retain his dex when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker by despite of the fact that Uncanny Dodge normally allows him to retain his dex in those situations.

Perhaps so. It's still superflous as any other condition which caused you to lose your Dex bonus to AC would prevent Uncanny Dodge from working. You could keep it for being flatfooted, but if you lost if for any other reason that, of course, would still mean you lost it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are other such situations where a Rogue loses her DEX bonus to AC, such as when balancing with four or fewer Ranks, for example...

3.5: Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

The reason you lose your Dex bonus while balancing (in 3.5) is that you are considered flat-footed.

Uncanny Dodge lets you keep your Dex bonus while flat-footed.

Therefore Uncanny Dodge lets you keep your Dex bonus while balancing.

It falls under the "two situations" mentioned.

-Hyp.

 

[Steverooo]

3.5: Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

The reason you lose your Dex bonus while balancing (in 3.5) is that you are considered flat-footed.

Uncanny Dodge lets you keep your Dex bonus while flat-footed.

Therefore Uncanny Dodge lets you keep your Dex bonus while balancing.

It falls under the "two situations" mentioned.

-Hyp.

But Non-Rogues with Balance(5)+ can also retain theirs...