D&D General Updating non-human pantheons for the new world orc-der (+)

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I have to admit that I never really understood the point of species deities. Faiths and religious practices unique to elves, dwarves, orcs, etc? Absolutely. Actual, real gods of elves and dwarves and orcs existing alongside and in the same pantheon as a whole host of deities with absolutely no species-specific inclinations? Yeah, it always struck me as kind of weird.

Same. Verges on distasteful imo.

Trying to make worldbuilding work around that race-homogeneous pantheons got to be a Gordian Knot I didn’t want to break open.

Cultural homogeneous pantheons I can make work.

 

[KoolMoDaddy-O]

In my campaign...

• Orcs are millenarianist Luddites who perceive any aspect of civilization as degeneracy and trespass. Led by druids who venerate nature deities in their most zealous and destructive aspects, gods such as Hurakan (floods and unrestrained fury), Joramy (fire, volcanoes, and wrath), and Telchur (winter, cold, and the north wind). Their druids preach the imminence of global cataclysm, although the various tribes are divided on whether they should usher that apocalypse or work to stop it. While they can often be convinced to follow charismatic wizards or despots who appeal to their antipathy toward technology and civilization, not all orcs are hostile to non-orcs; some barbarians and druids may find they have much in common with them.
• Elves do not worship gods but instead give tribute and deference to various archfey such as the Summer Queen. The elves believe in hierarchies, not religion; they genuflect before their social betters, not altars and statues.

 

[delericho]

This stuff is relative obscure lore and just doesn't get changed or updated very often, especially given 5e-era WotCs extreme unwillingness to seriously talk about religion in their products.

Honestly, at this point I'm inclined to think they should excise deities from the game entirely. Religion is just too bound up with culture, and writing any sort of religion that rings true while avoiding both appropriation and erasure is a challenge I just don't think they're up to. Especially in the sort of word count they could reasonably dedicate to the project.

Certainly, any gods and monsters with names from real-world religions (active or otherwise) really should be excised. So no more Tyr or Loviatar, no more Tiamat or Bahamut, no more Asmodeus. And once you've done that, what's left is so full of holes that you might as well go all the way - just downgrade Lolth back to being a demon queen rather than a goddess, and Tharizdun the same, and what really is lost?

Just let Clerics serve their Domains directly (and Paladins their oaths), and it should pretty much just work.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I agree that Luthic shouldn't be evil. As for the rest: Maybe most other "civilized" races view orcs as raiders and murderers, where orcs see themselves as marginalized and forced into barren areas where they need to steal to survive. They likely see their gods as good and virtuous.

As for me? If we're going to turn orcs from actually evil into "only considered evil" and keep alignment and morality objective for game purposes, I'd probably say that the orc gods are likely chaotic and neutral for the most part. With Luthic likely being good, but Yutrus and possibly Shargaas being actually evil.

 

[Tonguez]

Honestly, at this point I'm inclined to think they should excise deities from the game entirely. Religion is just too bound up with culture, and writing any sort of religion that rings true while avoiding both appropriation and erasure is a challenge I just don't think they're up to. Especially in the sort of word count they could reasonably dedicate to the project.

Certainly, any gods and monsters with names from real-world religions (active or otherwise) really should be excised. So no more Tyr or Loviatar, no more Tiamat or Bahamut, no more Asmodeus. And once you've done that, what's left is so full of holes that you might as well go all the way - just downgrade Lolth back to being a demon queen rather than a goddess, and Tharizdun the same, and what really is lost?

Just let Clerics serve their Domains directly (and Paladins their oaths), and it should pretty much just work.

The Mystara approach of Immortals who were once mortal beings might be an approach to take - set up the Spheres of Time, Matter, Energy, Thought and Entropy then let DMs Immortalises any Thing they want and make it a diety in their game…

 

[humble minion]

Honestly, at this point I'm inclined to think they should excise deities from the game entirely.

I’d argue they’ve functionally done that already. I play it different at my table (and as long as deities are a prominent thing in CR, I suspect WotC won’t close that door) but it’s a long time since a WotC product has even talked seriously about its pantheon. Dragonlance is the only one I can think of, inevitable probably given the whole premise is of a war between the gods. But Ravenloft and Spelljammer dodged the issue, and Planescape had them as setting background elements but not much more (which is consistent with how Planescape has always done it, to be fair.)

But this thread was largely started talking about the FR, given this is where the the crazy pantheon shenanigans and hundreds of contradictory niche deities who feud and die and come back to life and plot amd scheme and wax and wane etc are an inherent part of the eccentric charm of the setting, in my book.

 

[CleverNickName]

Cultural homogeneous pantheons I can make work.

Honestly, at this point I'm inclined to think they should excise deities from the game entirely. Religion is just too bound up with culture

One of my favorite things about Level Up A5E is how they separated Heritage (who your parents were) and Culture (the society you were raised in) from a character's Species (their DNA) and Background (their resumé). This creates a lot more design room for interesting character arcs and backstory. You can play a dwarf who was raised by elves, without having to cobble together a "half-dwarf" or whatever.

Seems like Culture would be the ideal place to describe deities (along with other traditions, mythologies, and lore).

 

[Voadam]

I like to have multiple cultures and religion/pantheons for elves and orcs and such. Sort of an Everton approach.

In my mashup setting elves can be associated with the classic Seldarine or the troll lords Erde elvish gods or archfey or Frey from Norse mythology or spirit veneration or a cult of Lothian or other options depending on the particular group of elves.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

One gets rid of "racial" gods entirely and makes any given religion specific to a culture or cultures. As others up thread have said, you can simply have different cultures refer to the same gods by different names.

Once, long ago on these forums, I made the association of Gruumsh with Odin.

One eyed; spear god; chooser of the slain; lord of their people; father figure.
Has a wife who's a mother goddess and all that comes with that.
There's even an idiot son... Hmm. Idiot is a bit harsh. Less than mentally gifted son who is a ridiculously strong monster slayer.
Even has a rival in the war god. (I have seen it proposed that Tyr was in fact war leader of the Aesir before Odin came along.)

 

[Baron Opal II]

So, now that orcs are proper full-blown PC races, amid many other lore changes, I got thinking a bit about the old legacy non-human pantheons.
...
Ideas?

I would read up a bit on Glorantha, Greg Stafford's world for RuneQuest. That can be like drinking the ocean somedays, so I would point you towards the troll pantheon. And, in specific, the battle and enmity between the troll god Zorak Zoran and the elf god Yelmalio in the Godtime.

I think that, properly framed, having a battle between Corellion and Grummsh in mythic times, where Grummsh loses an eye, is perfectly acceptible. Those two deities may not end up in the same form that they were in the 1980s, but they will be interesting.

The troll deities include:
Xentha - Mother of Night
Argan Argar - God of Barter and the Surface Darkness
Kyger Litor - Mother of Trolls, Daughter of Xentha
Xiola Umbar - Gentle Goddess of the Dark Within
Zorak Zoran - God of Hate and War
Gorakiki - Mother of Insects (Beasts of Darkness)