Upir Lichy - possible origin of the word Lich?

Greybar · Nov 8, 2003

For what it's worth, I was reading Fritz Leiber's "Lords of Quarmall" (Fafard and the Grey Mouser) last night. He distinctly uses "lich" as dead body without any undead or spiritual attributes. Just as a corpse to be put on a funeral pyre.

john

nikolai · Nov 8, 2003

From the OED.

1. = BODY n. a. The living body. Also the trunk, as opposed to the limbs.

b. A dead body; a corpse.

2. Comb.: lich-bell, ? a hand-bell rung before a corpse; lich-fowl = LICH-OWL; lich-holm, a shrub of some kind; lich-house [cf. Du. lijkenhuis], a dead-house, a mortuary; lich-lay, a rate levied to provide a church-yard (cf. LAY n.7 4); lich-path = lich-way; lich-rest, a place for a corpse to rest, a burial-place; lich-song, ? singing at a lyke-wake; lich-stone, a stone to place the coffin on at the lich-gate; lich-wal, -wale, a plant (see quots.); lich-way, a path along which a corpse has been carried to burial (this in some districts being supposed to establish a right of way); lich-wort, a plant (see quots.). Also LICH-GATE, LICH-OWL, LYKE-WAKE.

Tratyn is spot on that the source that got it into D&D is Clark Ashton Smith (Lovecraft and R. E. Howard being in the same "group" of writers). His stuff is really worth reading. The word lich is used an awful lot. It's almost constantly associated with animated corpses, and the animated corpses of sorcerors in particular is a bit of a theme running through several stories. It's pretty obviously where Gygax got the idea and the name from. This stuff was an enormous and under appreciated influence on D&D. The Yellow Musk Creeper is also is Ashton Smith's work, and Zothique made a huge impression on some of Al-Qadim.

Have a look at www.eldritchdark.com for more information.

tetsujin28 · Nov 10, 2003

nikolai said:
From the OED.

Tratyn is spot on that the source that got it into D&D is Clark Ashton Smith (Lovecraft and R. E. Howard being in the same "group" of writers). His stuff is really worth reading. The word lich is used an awful lot. It's almost constantly associated with animated corpses, and the animated corpses of sorcerors in particular is a bit of a theme running through several stories. It's pretty obviously where Gygax got the idea and the name from. This stuff was an enormous and under appreciated influence on D&D. The Yellow Musk Creeper is also is Ashton Smith's work, and Zothique made a huge impression on some of Al-Qadim.

Have a look at www.eldritchdark.com for more information.

CAS rocked. Hard. Along with Arthur Machen and Algernon Blackwood, he wrote some of the best early C20th creepy fiction.

Carnifex · Nov 10, 2003

tetsujin28 said:
CAS rocked. Hard. Along with Arthur Machen and Algernon Blackwood, he wrote some of the best early C20th creepy fiction.

It's really good stuff. I'm considering using the Collossus of Ylorge as the basis of an adventure idea for my unsuspecting players

Harlock · Nov 10, 2003

Carnifex said:
I mean,, they'd be really freaked if they're used to raise dead's and ressurections, then they die in the territory of Morraddin and his masked priests (probably monks and monk/clerics considering they show a fair bit of ahnd-to-hand skill in the story) turn up to claim the body for their god!

Check out Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers. Final Forfieture is the terminology they use. Also, the higher level your character gets, the harder it is to manage to keep the body. The Necromancers really enjoy studying heroes, especially very powerful ones.

Carnifex · Nov 10, 2003

Harlock said:
Check out Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers. Final Forfieture is the terminology they use. Also, the higher level your character gets, the harder it is to manage to keep the body. The Necromancers really enjoy studying heroes, especially very powerful ones.

Thing is, I don't really *need* to check out Hollowfaust. I'm just pointing out that CAS's stories are absolutely jam-packed with great ideas for use in campaigns. If I bought Hollowfaust I have an entire supplement much of which I probably wont use. If I read CAS's story, I get the same primary concept (rule by death-worshippers and the funky effects that has on life in the area) but without any setting-specific rules baggage. Hell, I don't have to bother with any rules at all

Having said that, I'm not trying to say Hollowfaust is crap or anything. I've heard plenty of good things about it, and if I do ever pick up another SL book it'll probably be Hollowfaust.

Tratyn Runewind · Nov 10, 2003

Hello,

Posted by nikolai:
This stuff was an enormous and under appreciated influence on D&D.

Posted by Carnifex:
It's really good stuff. I'm considering using the Collossus of Ylorge as the basis of an adventure idea for my unsuspecting players

Module X2, Castle Amber, anyone? Explicitly based on CAS's works, set in the Principality of Nouvelle Averoigne in Glantri, includes Genevieve de Sephora and Malachie du Marais as supporting characters. One of the family members, or their allies, is also Viceroy of the Fortress of Ylourgne, also in Glantri. There's a "colossus" creature in the module, powerful enough to be essentially unbeatable by the party unless they exploit a special weakness of it.

The Amber family (who are not themselves from CAS's works) and their followers (including Genevieve and Malachie) are said to have come to Glantri through a magical gate from another world. Another Glantrian noble house (Crownguard of Klantyre) is said to have come through the same portal from the same world, but they have nothing to do with CAS or his works, they are just as Scots as the Averoignans are French.

Malachie, in the "history" of the Known World/Mystara, has since the events of the module risen to the rank of Prince, and his domain is a haven for the lycanthropes of Glantri. He is one of the reasons I dislike the harsh alignment restrictions of 3.0E/3.5E for lycanthropes, though I can see why they'd want to have them for game balance purposes, to keep the game from turning into D&D: The Apocalypse.

There was a sequel, the Mark of Amber boxed set for 2nd Edition AD&D, but it focused on being a follow-up to the events of the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set and had little to do with Smith or his works.

It's a bit confusing, I know, in that one might expect a module called "Castle Amber" to be based on the work of Zelazny rather than Smith...

Hope this helps!

Kytka · Aug 24, 2019

Upír is a Czech word. It translates to "undead" but is commonly recognized in our language as a vampire. Lichy means "odd" or "strange", so the translation would be strange or odd undead. Russian language does not have the "i" with the line on it, that is from the Czech language. For Czechs and Slovaks, a vampire is a legendary creature feeding on the life force (usually the blood) of the living. In European folklore, these are more popularly known as the undead , who often visit their relatives and loved ones and cause trouble or death in places that they lived in during their lifetime.

There is a reference by Josef Jungmann speaking of the "other town of lychi for others" from February 13, 1571. In old script style, some references I found look like they may also be referring to the Moravian town of Lukov and the castle there. Czechs have so many ways to change words in their language, depending on which context you are speaking. Different dialects of the different tribes also affect the spelling. While in the Czech lands, there are Bohemians, Moravians, Slovaks, Silesians - and hundreds of years ago, the language had even more variations.

The Czech alphabet uses several letters in addition to the 26 letters used in the English alphabet. These are á, č, ď, é, ě, í, ň, ó, ř, š, ť, ú, ů, ý, ž.

The beginnings of the medieval castle of Lukov are shrouded in the mysteries of the past. Lukov became an integral part of the fixed network of castles that formed the protection of the eastern border of the Czech Kingdom. The first, even indirect mention of the existence of the castle dates back to 1219, when the mention of Lukov castellan Buni from Lukov appears. Another report comes from 1235. On the deed of Queen Constance he appears as a witness “Lambertus plebanus de Lukov”, ie a priest (plebeian) Lambert, who apparently worked in a sacral building directly in the castle.

Photos of the castle ruins: Lukov 2019: Best of Lukov, Czech Republic Tourism - TripAdvisor