Use Magic Device -- THE most potent skill?

[AGGEMAM]

Actually, you can emulate a class. Emmulate Class Feature PHB p26.

A class and a class feature is not the same, at least they were not last time I checked (which is about two minutes ago).

 

[ruleslawyer]

I don't think so:

Skill Mastery: The rogue selects a number of skills equal to 3 + Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, the rogue may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent the rogue from doing so.

...doesn't really say you can take10 on a skill that you usually can't take10 even when there's no distraction. What if the Rogue chooses Knowledge(Arcana), and has a +10 (rank+Int): it would mean he knows EVERYTHING which has DC 20 or less.

D'oh!

I misread the "stress and distractions" part of the Skill Mastery ability to be an example of conditions that normally would prevent taking 10, rather than the only conditions that are ignored using Skill Mastery. Good catch.

I'd tend to agree with AGGEMAM, if only because the text of UMD so strongly emphasizes that it can be used to emulate "the spell ability or class features of another class" rather than simply to emulate "another class."

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Yeah its a powerfull skill but I don't see any way a Rogue could impersonate a mage with it. UMD is, IMO, a rogue or bard trying to circumvent the normal casting process by overloading the magic item. Your rogue isn't going to look very mage-like when he has to jump up and down in place while wiggling his ears to get a wand to work. To use scrolls maybe they have to slam the scroll and tube on the recipients head shouting 'GO!'. Anyone who thinks this is typical arcane magic would have to be a total idiot.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

or the UMDer activating the item has an exceedingly high Bluff score with which to fool any onlookers...

( my fellow player I originally mentioned has something like +23 in both UMD and Bluff, if not more. But he does have some minor spellcasting ability as well. )

 

[Arnix]

A class and a class feature is not the same, at least they were not last time I checked (which is about two minutes ago).

A rogue with UMD CAN use a Holy Weapon as a paladin. They simply have to emulate the ability of a paladin to use a holy weapon.

I don't have time to look up all the minute references at work, but possibly once I get home before my game tonight.


Arnix (tm)

 

[Hand of Vecna]

heh, goes to show I can't throw out a offhandedly-remarked hypothetical situation without a load or folks crashing down on it with them fancy "rules" and such...

 

[AGGEMAM]

A rogue with UMD CAN use a Holy Weapon as a paladin. They simply have to emulate the ability of a paladin to use a holy weapon.

Nope!

The difference is emulation a class feature lets you pretend you had that feature, while if it were (it is not however) possible to emulate being a class would mean you got access to these class features, basically every class feature in the game.

To use a holy avenger you actually have to be a paladin.

 

[Arnix]

Do you have a specific reference to this or is this merely conjecture?

Out of curiosity. I could be wrong.

 

[Kyramus]

analogy for the holy sword/paladin emulator rogue.

We are using windows 2k. It has dos emulator. While it does function as dos, it is NOT dos.

For example, I installed an old dos game on windows 2k, even with the emulator, the darn thing won't work.

now back to rogue.
Rogue emulates the detect evil ability of the paladin, it DOES NOT make him a paladin. Rogue then tries to emulate lay on hands (probably with a hidden wand of cure light wounds). That still doesn't make him a Paladin.
Rogue then fakes turning undead (Undead looks at him funny and the sword probably will bop him over the head for trying too many times.
In the end, he's a Rogue, not a Paladin.
And if you are going to argue the case further. Magic of a holy nature is derived from a deity. I think a deity would know if you are trying to bluff it or not and if you persist, I wouldn't like to see what the deity thinks of as humorous to punish you with.

 

[jontherev]

I got an email reply from the Sage that said Skill Mastery works for all skills, including UMD (I specifically asked about that skill). It might be in one of those Sage Response Archives threads somewhere. FWIW.