Using a staff with Use Magic Device skill

[juliaromero]

We have a rogue using a staff now with his Use Magic Device Skill and suddenly a lot of odd questions came up.

So, firt, how does he determine his caster level for level based effects? Is it just the standard UMD check of roll+skill-20? Can he cast spells pretending to be higher than his normal level doing this? Our arcane gnome wizard suddenly became very interested in that answer, since he also has a lot of ranks and pluses in UMD and could easily boost his damage dice or spell effects if he could suddenly start "pretending" to be higher level. That seemed too cheesey to me.

I housed ruled it for the time being to be a normal roll, but it could never be higher than your character level (though that still helps multii-class spell casters cheat).

Also, which ability modifier? Can he just arbitrarily decide to emulate a wizard or sorcerer and thus use either Int or Cha, whichever is better? Or even a Cleric if it is on that spell list too and use Wis in that case?

This only seems to be an issue with a staff which uses the caster's stats unlike all other magic items.

This of course can get even nastier if you allow that cleric spell from one of the splat books (I can't remember which one right now) that works like True Strike, but with a skill check.

 

[Staffan]

I would rule that using UMD with a staff only lets you activate it at its normal casting level. However, you can still use your own ability scores (but you can't use UMD to boost them), and I'd allow the use of Wis or Cha for divine spells (there are Cha-based divine casters in Complete Divine, right?), and Int or Cha for arcane spells, whichever is the most useful.

 

[juliaromero]

I would rule that using UMD with a staff only lets you activate it at its normal casting level. However, you can still use your own ability scores (but you can't use UMD to boost them), and I'd allow the use of Wis or Cha for divine spells (there are Cha-based divine casters in Complete Divine, right?), and Int or Cha for arcane spells, whichever is the most useful.

Yeah, but a staff doesn't have a "normal casting level", that's the thing. It uses the caster level of the weilder. Or did you perhaps mean to say "minimum caster level"?

 

[Shin Okada]

Yeah, but a staff doesn't have a "normal casting level", that's the thing. It uses the caster level of the weilder. Or did you perhaps mean to say "minimum caster level"?

Every magic items, including staves, have their own caster level. The creater decide it. Unless otherwise noted, a found or bought magic item have CL listed in the "CL" entry for that item. Remenber, that is NOT "minimum caster level".

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah, but a staff doesn't have a "normal casting level", that's the thing. It uses the caster level of the weilder. Or did you perhaps mean to say "minimum caster level"?

"Staffs use the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it’s higher than the caster level of the staff. "

A Rogue, for example, using UMD to activate a staff has no caster level. Therefore his caster level is not higher than the caster level of the staff.

A Wiz1 can use a Staff of Abjuration. The effects take place at Caster Level 13 - the CL of the staff. A Wiz18 using the same staff would produce CL18 effects, since his own caster level is higher than 13.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I would simply rule that the UMD check for using a staff does not use the rules for emulating either an ability score OR caster level. It does the minimum required to activate the staff - a DC 20 for "use a wand", and no more.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would simply rule that the UMD check for using a staff does not use the rules for emulating either an ability score OR caster level. It does the minimum required to activate the staff - a DC 20 for "use a wand", and no more.

Exactly.

Notice that you no longer emulate a caster level in 3.5. Rather, the caster level of a scroll modifies the DC to activate the scroll.

And since emulating an ability score only applies to activating scrolls, you can't use that with a staff either.

-Hyp.

 

[3d6]

Never mind. I had though that you used "emulate a class feature" to activate a staff, but then I read the entry for "use a wand."

 

[apesamongus]

Would the same apply to a Warlock who has a caster level, but no spells on his spell list (so he needs to use UMD). It seems that he would be limited to the level of the staff just like the rogue, but that seems counter to the whole point of giving him UMD as a class skill.

 

[Staffan]

Would the same apply to a Warlock who has a caster level, but no spells on his spell list (so he needs to use UMD). It seems that he would be limited to the level of the staff just like the rogue, but that seems counter to the whole point of giving him UMD as a class skill.

I'd say so, yes. And I think the main point of giving warlocks UMD as a class skill is to let them use scrolls and wands to boost their spell selection a little, not to be staff-masters.