D&D 5E Using booming blade on a reaction attack with sanctuary question

ECMO3

Hero
The enemy doesn't have to move after being hit by an Opportunity Attack according to the Devs
So the sequence would go more as follow. Enemy is sheathed in booming energy to start his turn and right next to me.

Enemies Turn:
1. Enemy attempt moving out of my reach, triggering an AOO
2. Cast Booming Blade via War Caster, hitting it and sheathing it in booming energy
3. Sanctuary drops
4. The enemy either keep moving and take damage from Booming Blade or stay within 5 feet of me and attack me
I think the problem with this is "attempting" to move out of reach does not trigger an AOO. Only actually moving out of reach does.

I can buy that he does not have to complete his move, but he has still moved to the edge of my reach (5 feet), that uses 5 feet of movement and put him in a different location than he started his turn.

If we are to take this logic and apply it to a reach weapon - if an enemy tries to move away when I have a pole arm and I hit him with an AOO from 10 feet away does that mean he never moved at all and is still standing right next to me? To pull this thread a little more, if I do this with Sentinel and he can't move any more after I hit with my polearm, does that mean he can attack me if he has only a 5 foot reach?
 
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ECMO3

Hero
If they leave then they are out of range so the AO can't happen. The only logical conclusion that works with all the other factors, like sentinel and BB , is the movement of space is attempted, the the reaction occurs, then the movement is resolved. That can only happen of the target has agency over where they are.
No. They move to the edge of reach. They have moved before the AOO occurs and if you want to say it interupts it fine, but it interupts the movement at the edge of reach, not where they started the movement.

Like I said in my earlier post, if I have a polearm and I hit you when you leave my 10 foot reach you are not teleported right back next to me. I hit you when you are excactly 10 feet away and you are still 10 feet away when I hit you. Same with a 5 foot reach, you are hit when you are 5 foot away, you are not teleported back next to me.
 

ECMO3

Hero
In other words they moved 4 ft and the AO happens. They then can continue to move or stay where they are. Nothing in the rules say you must spend movement in set chunks.

I can buy this logic, but the number is 5 feet, not 4 feet. I can hit someone 4 feet, I can hit someone at 4 feet 11 inches, I can hit someone at 4 feet 11 3/4 inches ......... etc. So he is more than 4 feet away.

With a 5-foot reach I can hit someone exactly 5 feet away, I can't hit someone MORE than 5 feet away. So I think he is 5 feet away exactly when the AOO happens, not 4 feet. This is also exactly the movement that triggers booming blade.
 

No. They move to the edge of reach. They have moved before the AOO occurs and if you want to say it interupts it fine, but it interupts the movement at the edge of reach, not where they started the movement.

Like I said in my earlier post, if I have a polearm and I hit you when you leave my 10 foot reach you are not teleported right back next to me. I hit you when you are excactly 10 feet away and you are still 10 feet away when I hit you. Same with a 5 foot reach, you are hit when you are 5 foot away, you are not teleported back next to me.
Exactly. The edge of the reach is something the rules don't play nice with because everything and everything aren't blocks of stuff filling a grid. That's why of you want to use a pole arm to make an AO with the last bullet they must already be ~9-10 ft or you get the issue with hitting something that isn't in reach. They aren't teleporting as much as grids being grids.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Exactly. The edge of the reach is something the rules don't play nice with because everything and everything aren't blocks of stuff filling a grid. That's why of you want to use a pole arm to make an AO with the last bullet they must already be ~9-10 ft or you get the issue with hitting something that isn't in reach. They aren't teleporting as much as grids being grids.

Well then they are 4-5 feet away in the case I am talking about, not right next to me as others have alluded. They moved 4-5 feet they are in the location they moved to. And I would argue it is 5 exactly, not 4-5 because my reach is 5 feet exactly, not 4-5 feet.

Also if you are using grids and they moved 4-5 feet away from me, they are mostly in the next grid, not in the one they started in.
 

Well then they are 4-5 feet away in the case I am talking about, not right next to me as others have alluded. They moved 4-5 feet they are in the location they moved to. And I would argue it is 5 exactly, not 4-5 because my reach is 5 feet exactly, not 4-5 feet.
If they have moved exactly 5f they are on the line between grid spaces. Which way they finish the last .000000000001 bit of movement is up to them. That one of the reasons grid play is a consider a variant. The assumption is foot by foot so this isn't a problem. Always a trade off when using something to streamline play.

Why I brought up sentinel. Most rule the movement is stopped within the triggering grid because that makes sense but that's inconsistent with the ruling with movement of grid with AOs is unavoidable.
 

ECMO3

Hero
If they have moved exactly 5f they are on the line between grid spaces. Which way they finish the last .000000000001 bit of movement is up to them. That one of the reasons grid play is a consider a variant. The assumption is foot by foot so this isn't a problem. Always a trade off when using something to streamline play.

Why I brought up sentinel. Most rule the movement is stopped within the triggering grid because that makes sense but that's inconsistent with the ruling with movement of grid with AOs is unavoidable.
Ok I can buy that they can decide which square they are in after the attack, but regardless of which square they are in they still moved 5 feet.

Because they moved 5 feet, they have 5 feet less movement and triggered the original booming blade movement damage (but not the AOO damage if they choose not to move any more regardless of which square they are in) because both of those things happen when you move 5 feet, not when you leave the square.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
If they leave then they are out of range so the AO can't happen.
And if they never leave reach, the AOO never triggers. It can only trigger if the enemy is locked into moving 5 feet away and you then get a swing as it leaves.
The only logical conclusion that works with all the other factors, like sentinel and BB , is the movement of space is attempted, the the reaction occurs, then the movement is resolved. That can only happen of the target has agency over where they are.
Sentinel is different. Specific beats general and it stops you. It isn't evidence that you can just voluntarily stop moving before leaving the 5 feet, which would prevent an AOO from happening.
 

Pettt
Ok I can buy that they can decide which square they are in after the attack, but regardless of which square they are in they still moved 5 feet.

Because they moved 5 feet, they have 5 feet less movement and triggered the original booming blade movement damage (but not the AOO damage if they choose not to move any more regardless of which square they are in) because both of those things happen when you move 5 feet, not when you leave the square.
Pretty much yea. Moving 5ft and moving grid squares can happen together rather than they both must occur in tandem. Going prone or standing up is just a headache though when you are trying to maintain logic and balance with BB.

I just rewrote it so the rider happens like static grounding. so the target can move but if they end up in a space more than 5ft away it triggers. Makes it at least mildly engaging.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Well then they are 4-5 feet away in the case I am talking about, not right next to me as others have alluded. They moved 4-5 feet they are in the location they moved to. And I would argue it is 5 exactly, not 4-5 because my reach is 5 feet exactly, not 4-5 feet.

Also if you are using grids and they moved 4-5 feet away from me, they are mostly in the next grid, not in the one they started in.
They aren't mostly in the next grid. They are entirely in the next grid. If you want to visualize it as them standing at the edge of that grid that is closest to you, that's fine. In game terms, though, they are out of reach now.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
And the rules say that where exactly?
Page 195 of the PHB.

"You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach"

You only get it if they actually move out of your reach. Yes, you attack before they leave, but unless they move out of reach there is no AOO at all. It does not say, "attempts to move out of your reach."

It it also says, "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach."

Right before it LEAVES REACH. Not, "If it never leaves reach." The "before it leaves reach" means that it is still leaving reach.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I would allow it. The intent of Warcaster is to A) enable you to cast a spell as a AOO reaction, and B) do so to hurt the enemy. While it technically doesn't target the enemy directly, it's fast enough and intended to hurt and I don't see why a caster wouldn't be able to do it.
That’s fair.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
The trigger can ONLY happen if the creature leaves reach. It THEN interrupts and happens before you leave, but if you never leave there was never a trigger in the first place. In effect, if you allow the creature to stop, you are allowing it to negate the AOO as it never left and never triggered that attack.
If the trigger was leaving reach, it would be out of reach to attack it. It takes place before the creature moves out, while still within 5 feet.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
To pull this thread a little more, if I do this with Sentinel and he can't move any more after I hit with my polearm, does that mean he can attack me if he has only a 5 foot reach?
Yes it can, since having no speed means its still within 5 feet of you.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
If the trigger was leaving reach, it would be out of reach to attack it. It takes place before the creature moves out, while still within 5 feet.
But it can only happen if the creature actually leaves reach. You don't have the AOO if the creature doesn't leave reach. Only the attack happens before the creature leaves reach, not the trigger. The trigger is "has left reach." No leave reach, no trigger.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
The trigger is "right before the creature leaves.."
Unless your AO includes a feature that forces the target to continue moving they can just stop... meaning they have spend the movement but remained I'm the same "space".
It's a result of the how the game breaks up space And movement into grids for playability.

**AOs are already silly. Moving away from a someone swinging a weapon almost always decreases the opportunities for them to hit you. Image if you gave a put two guys in a large room and gave one a stick and told the other one to not get touched by the stick. In what reality is moving towards the stick going to increase your odds of not to getting poked?
Yeah, logically AOOs should be triggered by entering the reach of a target with a longer weapon (say, reach > two-handed > versatile > any other melee weapon). But would that lead to better gameplay?
 


Page 195 of the PHB.

"You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach"

You only get it if they actually move out of your reach. Yes, you attack before they leave, but unless they move out of reach there is no AOO at all. It does not say, "attempts to move out of your reach."

It it also says, "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach."

Right before it LEAVES REACH. Not, "If it never leaves reach." The "before it leaves reach" means that it is still leaving reach.
Well unless you have forced movement on that AO then they can stop or move right back where they started utilizing the same movement. The rules for AOs are about the attempt not resolution of movement. Its worded like crap yes but editing is a nightmare throughout 5e. It's the shield spell paradox all over.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
But it can only happen if the creature actually leaves reach. You don't have the AOO if the creature doesn't leave reach. Only the attack happens before the creature leaves reach, not the trigger. The trigger is "has left reach." No leave reach, no trigger.
No the Opportunity Attack trigger is when it moves out but occur before it, not when it ''has left'' it. Otherwise dying from it or being otherwise unable to move after it would invalidate the trigger. The creature is still within your reach when triggering, and by the Devs, can keep moving after, or not.

Opportunity Attack: You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
 

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