Using Cleave is Munchkinesque?

[Hammerhead]

Remember that anything effective is munchkin to some people.

 

[SableWyvern]

As the DM, I'd have mentioned it to him and cast it sort of like: "If you want to do that, it'll be more like you swinging your sword in wide arcs, sweeping through the small monsters to slam into your intended target."
--HT

Exactly the way I look at it. The rule is there, and it is meant to be used - why else was the feat allowed, and why else did the fighter in question take it?. If he didn't want to use it, that's fine. But anyone who thinks that avoiding munchkinism is a good reason not to use it - IMO, you're using the wrong system. d&d is designed to create epic heroes (with or without the ELH) who can do that sort of stuff.

Wise words from Buzzard
Not at all. The other player is merely a painful, holier than thou, role-playing purist. He probably LARPs while alone. That type is best ignored, or thrown in a wood chipper.

 

[NemesisPress]

I think mostly it's that, as was brought up, it is counter-intuitive and therefore damaging to game verisimilitude

It depends on the kind of game feel you are going after. That feat lends itself to an heroic/cinematic feel - where the minions are relatively minor annoyances, while the real opponent is much deadlier.

 

[S'mon]

Munchkin

Munchkin is twisting/ignoring the wording of the rules to give yourself extra powers.

Munchkin is cleaving off a Spring Attack even though all feats giving extra atacks are stated to require a Full Attack action "because cleave isn't really an extra attack" (?!?!).

Munchkin is cleaving off a whirlwind attack, even though whirlwind attacks require you to give up all your other attacks "because cleave isn't really an extra attack" (?!?!).

Just _using_ cleave is not munchkin!

A player who thinks that using a PHB feat the way it's written in the PHB is munchkin really shouldn't be playing D&D.

 

[Aaron L]

Alright you are surrounded by 10 enemies that are attacking you. 9 of those enemies are weak enough that you can take them out with a single attack, but they still pose a threat to you. The 10th is the big threat. Logic would say you eliminate the smaller attackers as they still can do damage to you but can be eliminated easily, possibly two at a time. Tell the person that called you a munchkin that he is clueless, and that a correctly roleplayed fighter would have used the proper tactical manuever to eliminate his enemies.


Besides, swinging a halberd in a wide arc to hit a lackey as well as the big bad isn't a very big stretch of the imagination.

 

[Rhael]

Munchkinesque, eh? What a load of crap. I find the image of a fighter (or ranger/cleric for that matter) taking a fraction of his turn to quickly club down some annoying little beasty nipping at his ankles perfectly okay. In fact, if you imagine the scene, it looks kinda cool.

If the fighter player doesn't think that's how he wants to use the feat - fine, it's his (and possibly, depending on the group make-up, his comrade's) funeral.

But the guy who said it's munchkinism - sounds like he's pissed because he can't do it.

Aside from that (and as my $0.02), Cleave is the feat that makes fighting snotlings (Warhammer FRP monster that was easy to kill - and my general noun to describe 'one hit wonders') fun. How tedious would wading through a horde of goblins be if you didn't have cleave. I've had cleave for a couple of levels now - I never get tired of knocking down that extra attacker.

 

[nsruf]

Sure, fighting the bone demon with anything more than a wooden spoon (and the other arm tied behind the fighter's back) is munchkinny to the extreme

But seriously, ask your player why he bothers to play D&D - obviosuly, he considers the MERE PRESENCE of GAME MECHANICS intolerable Maybe he should do rules-free games or improvisational theater or something...

 

[Squire James]

Cleave isn't munchkin.

Great Cleave isn't munchkin.

The Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack combo isn't munchkin.

Summoning a bunch of Fiendish Dire Rats around a fighter so he can Whirlwind Attack and get 9-10 attacks on a big baddie... THAT'S munchkin!

 

[S'mon]

Cleave isn't munchkin.

Great Cleave isn't munchkin.

The Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack combo isn't munchkin.

Summoning a bunch of Fiendish Dire Rats around a fighter so he can Whirlwind Attack and get 9-10 attacks on a big baddie... THAT'S munchkin!

If you allow great cleave to stack with whirlwind attack, the dire rat tactic follows logically. Which is probably one reason why the PHB as written requires the whirlwind attacker to give up all their other attacks (and, yes, a cleave is an attack!).

 

[hong]

If you allow great cleave to stack with whirlwind attack, the dire rat tactic follows logically. Which is probably one reason why the PHB as written requires the whirlwind attacker to give up all their other attacks (and, yes, a cleave is an attack!).

Still rabbiting on about this topic, S'mon? How quaint.

BTW, the canonical name for this tactic is the "bag of snails".