D&D (2024) Using general Feats when your ability is already 20

[AlViking]

One would think with 5e's flat math that ASI bumps would be statistically significant, rather than something to be dismissed.

Define "statistically significant". If you're doing 1.05 extra points of damage per round and the typical combat is over in 4 rounds, how often does it matter when the amount you drop an enemy below 0 doesn't count does it really matter?

I will say that the spread of ability score difference between characters if you roll can be significant. Because you can end up with 1 character with multiple 18s and a 20 and another character with all numbers around 10 or below.

 

[Distracted DM]

Define "statistically significant". If you're doing 1.05 extra points of damage per round and the typical combat is over in 4 rounds, how often does it matter when the amount you drop an enemy below 0 doesn't count does it really matter?

I will say that the spread of ability score difference between characters if you roll can be significant. Because you can end up with 1 character with multiple 18s and a 20 and another character with all numbers around 10 or below.

More importantly, it's affecting the rate at which you hit (in order to deal damage) and/or the enemy fails their saves vs. your spells/features.

 

[AlViking]

More importantly, it's affecting the rate at which you hit (in order to deal damage) and/or the enemy fails their saves vs. your spells/features.

Right, you're hitting 5% more. Hence the 1.05 more damage. It goes up as you get more attacks of course, but the question was with 1st level characters. While I have seen a difference when there was a very large disparity because of rolling, I couldn't tell you most of the time who had min/maxed their character to get that slightly higher score.

I prefer point buy and starting everyone on equal footing, I've also played characters that didn't prioritize their primary ability score.

 

[ECMO3]

Some might think the problem is having the 20 in a stat at first level. The game is not designed that way and using the standard array prevents this, and allows for growth to the 20 stat over levels 4 and 8.

I would disagree with this, the entire game is designed around rolling dice and the PHB includes three options for abilities, including rolling. A natural 18 is a clear possibility, more common than a critical hit and logically your highest stat is where your +2 is usually going to go.

I have actually not played a single 2024 game that is Standard Array since the 2024 rules tied Standard Array to class (in a fashion that is not ideal I would add). I have played more games that are point buy recently, that said many games are still roll for abilities and that is RAW. Historically, I've played far more games of D&D overall where I rolled for abilities then where I used either point buy or standard array.

If you roll for abilities it is not unheard of for at least one PC out of 4 to start with a 20. Most games it doesn't happen, butif you play D&D regularly you see it. Most games, as in well over half, I would say there is at least 1 PC that starts with an 18-19 at 1st level.

 

[ECMO3]

In the end, to me, people misunderstand what the impacts of a high ability score and higher efficiency for a PC do for the game. The primary impact is not that they deal 7.54325345% more damage per round - the primary difference is how they feel in game and how the story revolves differently around their PC. A 20 stated PC gets the starring role that is expected to win the game ... which can make they Superman, or Gaston from Beauty and the Beast.

I would disagree with this IME. The "starring role" is based mostly on the player, not the character.

Familiarity with the rules, creativity, the degree to which the player can think on their feet and the players personality in terms of being an introvert or extrovert is the primary driver in the "starring role" IME. Other things which influence this are class and adventure story/loot/progression, but those are way behind the player influence.

I can't honestly say I can remember ability scores mattering at all in this.*

*Disclaimer - If you roll hit points those matter as well and we do that in some games,, but that is not strictly ability scores. It matters mostly on characters with low rolls IME and they play cautiosly. I remember we had an 8th level Fighter/Assassin with 27 hit points in a game a few years back and he played a lot different than he would have (and did in other games).

 

[ECMO3]

1) They should have put the +1 race bump in CHA instead of the +2 at 1st level.

Then they are notably weaker for the first 3 levels, and not a whole lot stronger for the remaining 17.

 

[ECMO3]

And we play a game with no ASI (feats only) and max ability score of 18. It works just fine too.*

*Actually, I think the game works better (more fun) with lower ability scores.

I think the game is most fun when using the 1E Uneathed Arcana method for rolling. This leads to very high scores overall, but you don't choose where to put your highest score.

You pick your class and then roll different numbers of dice depending on the class choice but you can't change your dice. If your Champion rolls 3 sixes on Intelligence he has an 18 Intelligence and no ability to move that to Strength or Dexterity.

 

[ECMO3]

One would think with 5e's flat math that ASI bumps would be statistically significant, rather than something to be dismissed.

The 20 cap limits this though. It is marginally significant through 8 levels, but not after that when anyone on point buy can have a 20 in their preferred stat.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

Then they are notably weaker for the first 3 levels, and not a whole lot stronger for the remaining 17.

I disagree. The difference between 18 and 20, the +1 modifier, is hardly noticable at all due to the swinginess of the d20.

EDIT: I mean this in comparison to the benefits of a full feat, for instance, and the amount of "power" and/or enjoyable play experience it grants compared to that +1 modifier bump.

 

[ECMO3]

I disagree. The difference between 18 and 20, the +1 modifier, is hardly noticable at all due to the swinginess of the d20.

But the reverse is even more true - putting the extra +1 on an ability they rarely use is noticable even less and in some cases not at all. Put the +2 on Constitution and the +1 on Charisma and now you have 15 and 19 for the first 3 levels instead of 14 and 20. Then for the next the next 17 levels you have 15 and 20 instead of 14 and 20.

I get you could (and maybe would) pick up a Constitution feat down the road at level 12, but then again maybe you wouldn't or maybe you would just take a full ASI at level 12 or Tough which would give more hps than a Feat or another Origin Feat that gets you an off-list spell and Cantrips.