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Using Magnetic Fields to Produce Gravitational Fields

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Then: "Produce and control gravitational fields using magnetic fields. Confirm the production of gravitational fields from the mass/energy of magnetic fields."

This would be a little better, yes.

The "transform physics and shake up Einstein's theory" part seems just wrong.

Actually, it might. Considering that it might give insight into very small gravitational fields - meaning, much closer to the quantum level. We might, for example, see the production of single quanta of gravity - single gravitons. Now, that would be cool and would likely shake up theory quite a bit.

The implication for new technologies seems overstated.

Nobody ever knows the implications for new technology before the experiments are done. The point of doing lots of basic research is that you never know which will pay off. Of course, people funding things still want to know the payoff beforehand. So, you get some weird statements of vague things.
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I agree with Umbran that it's a misstatement, but it's not Science Daily's fault --- it's in the press release from the author's home university. Let's just say that the claims in the press release (which was probably written by the university's media office with input from Professor Fuzfa) are a bit hyperbolic. I think you're right; there's not likely to be much technological development. You're certainly right that this won't "shake up" GR in any way, and the actual scientific article is clear that this is just an application of GR.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Actually, it might. Considering that it might give insight into very small gravitational fields - meaning, much closer to the quantum level. We might, for example, see the production of single quanta of gravity - single gravitons. Now, that would be cool and would likely shake up theory quite a bit.
The article is talking about using current technology to detect these gravitational fields. We can't detect a single graviton with that. And if we do get detectors that can detect single gravitons, we are likely to see them from other sources than magnetic fields. PLUS the calculations made in this paper won't be valid anyway, since they're for classical general relativity.

Nobody ever knows the implications for new technology before the experiments are done. The point of doing lots of basic research is that you never know which will pay off. Of course, people funding things still want to know the payoff beforehand. So, you get some weird statements of vague things.
Absolutely true. But this calculation/experiment as proposed/described in this paper is an incremental experimental approach to confirm an expected effect of "old physics," not some new theory. Scientists when deciding on experimental priorities have to assess the likelihood of success and benefits, and this one doesn't seem that exciting.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
T
Absolutely true. But this calculation/experiment as proposed/described in this paper is an incremental experimental approach to confirm an expected effect of "old physics," not some new theory.

Yes, but you know as well as I do that the words associated wit scientific discovery are less often "Eureka!" and more often, "Huh, that's funny..." It is the experiment designed to confirm a theory that is more likely to observe deviations from that theory.

I mean, how many scientists were chomping at the bit not to see the Higgs verified, but to see the Higgs verified with some small difference from what was expected?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, but you know as well as I do that the words associated wit scientific discovery are less often "Eureka!" and more often, "Huh, that's funny..." It is the experiment designed to confirm a theory that is more likely to observe deviations from that theory.

I mean, how many scientists were chomping at the bit not to see the Higgs verified, but to see the Higgs verified with some small difference from what was expected?

Oh, of course, everyone wanted to see something different than the Standard Model Higgs from the LHC (and there are hints we may get something else this summer). But comparing the Higgs search to this experiment is not an apples-to-apples comparison. There were very good reasons to do the Higgs search --- for mathematical reasons, something had to show up in the energy range that the LHC reached with very high certainty, and even a failed search would have told us a lot. There also are/were very good reasons to expect the LHC to find something other than or in addition to the Standard Model Higgs, at least if you include the 2nd run (which is going on right now). And, again, finding just the Standard Model Higgs would also have told us a lot. Another, extremely important issue, is that the LHC was feasible --- expensive, certainly, and non-trivial, but feasible.

On the other hand, just because someone has now calculated the metric in the presence of a solenoid with large field does not provide great justification for building an entire LIGO detector just for that (I might mention that, with the very weak gravitational effects of even the 20 Tesla field mentioned in the experiment design, you really only need the perturbative calculation, which I think the paper said had been done before). Furthermore, we're talking about trying to keep the light wave in the detector coherent for 200 days (very challenging) to have a hope of seeing a signal, and that's before talking about noise. Now, a gravitational wave experiment like LIGO has to "hear" a signal through lots of noise --- things like very tiny seismic rumbles, etc, etc. But LIGO's gravitational wave signals would be detected over seconds or minutes. If you have add those over 200 days, that'll be a bigger background. And gravitational waves will be backgrounds, too. I'd worry there's an irreducible background, and I'd also worry that the situation is much worse, since I'm a theorist and don't know half the trouble that goes into these things. The other thing is that there is no reason theoretically to think there could be a big pay off from this experiment. We understand weak field gravity very well, so weak field quantum gravity is very constrained by what we know already. My feeling, which is borne out by the fact that no one in the physics community seems to have paid any attention to this proposal 8 or 9 months after it first came out, is that people don't find this to be very promising. That's all. Maybe someday, if we're able to produce much bigger magnetic fields, someone will follow up on this. But I do suspect we'll have better ways to test quantum gravity by then, too.
 

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