Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I’m not sure we do…then what is the argument you are making? We read the rule diffrent, we see the game diffrent but for the most part we still play the same.
I’m not sure we do…then what is the argument you are making? We read the rule diffrent, we see the game diffrent but for the most part we still play the same.
All of his evidence seems to be that a lack of no = yes, which is a logical failure. He doesn't have any specific contradictions to show us, because none exist.For the love... if you have done so, then link to them. Or quote them. Or copy & paste them as a response.
We ALL can't possibly be missing ALL your rules quotes and page references annotated with your interpretation. So something else must be going on here, yes?
No, an ability check determines whether or not an action is successful when the outcome is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence for failure. Those are the rules of the game.you are just making stuff up now.
the roll determains how good the npc/monster is at a skill... just like an arcana check.
so the book helps you set the DC, this is one of the rules I do not like and as such DO HOUSE RULE, so I am no help at RAW setting DCs.
it is only meaningless if you ignore that it is the ingame ability of X to do Y
and I think you are more interested in arguing then listening. You can dislike my reading of the rules, just don't pretend I am NOT reading the rules.
and you could start doing it today with no change. (unless you can show me some example where the end result is different)
Yes, the DM might ask you to make a check. However, there are also general rules for when the DM should ask for a check (specifically, when the outcome of the action is uncertain), which this quotation does not explicitly contradict.post 189
Page 179:
"Persuasion. When you attempt to influence someone or a group of people with tact, social graces, or good nature, the DM might ask you to make a Charisma (Persuasion) check. Typically, you use persuasion when acting in good faith, to foster friendships, make cordial requests, or exhibit proper etiquette. Examples of persuading others include convincing a chamberlain to let your party see the king, negotiating peace between warring tribes, or inspiring a crowd of townsfolk."
It seems to completely be consistent with a PC trying to persuade another PC and the DM then might call for a check.
as long as you think that trump card means something, when I have told you repeateldy I am useing common language reading you might as well be sticking your fingers in your ears and yellinglogically valid
then show me an end result diffrence. do you want me to repost the examples of play?I’m not sure we do…
I certainly know what this approach is doing (badly in my view), but to say it conforms to the rules is not a defensible position as I see it. And in that situation, the better move is to abandon the position with the knowledge that it's totally okay to house/table rule things in D&D! Nobody will say otherwise.Ultimately, it's just a bit of sharing of the DM's responsibilities because rolling the NPC's social skill checks and having the player adjudicate success essentially puts the player in the DM's role. From that perspective, the method conforms reasonably well to the rules.
I don't know that declaring that doing so isn't supported by the rules is a horse worth beating to death.
no matter how many times you cut nd paste this aruement it is not going to end this discussion.No, an ability check determines whether or not an action is successful when the outcome is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence for failure. Those are the rules of the game.
except I am not defending my preference I am explaining why YOUR preference is not the only way to read the rules.I have read every one of your posts. I neither like nor dislike your reading of the rules. But what is very obvious is that your reading takes some rules into account, ignores others, and then makes logical leaps that don't follow in what appears to be an attempt at defending a preference that doesn't actually need defending.
1. That's not even your post but let's go with itpost 189
Page 179:
"Persuasion. When you attempt to influence someone or a group of people with tact, social graces, or good nature, the DM might ask you to make a Charisma (Persuasion) check. Typically, you use persuasion when acting in good faith, to foster friendships, make cordial requests, or exhibit proper etiquette. Examples of persuading others include convincing a chamberlain to let your party see the king, negotiating peace between warring tribes, or inspiring a crowd of townsfolk."
It seems to completely be consistent with a PC trying to persuade another PC and the DM then might call for a check.
Can you show us where this DC setting rule is?so the book helps you set the DC, this is one of the rules I do not like and as such DO HOUSE RULE, so I am no help at RAW setting DCs.