D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

But nothing in this thread does that and 7 years of discussing the game, playing many different ways, hacking the game, playing it pure, running for regular groups and pickup groups, and observing hundreds of other people's games has put a lot of theory to the test. And in this instance, I am convinced I have the right of it.
do you understand that this statement is equally true for the people you disagree with?

You say you don't marry yourself to an idea, then why in all of these years you have not come to the conclusion that (especially in 5e) game rules can be read by different people and interpreted differently without one being wrong.
 

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except again it appears YOU are taking older editions in mind, and talorying YOUR reading to it... the diffrence is I understand that everyone is a product of there past experiences, and you seem to think that not only are you above that, BUT that you have some how found some secret truth in how to read the rules.
I have specifically set up processes to avoid these outcomes. I put those in place after I found my D&D 4e game was not very good, having come from D&D 3.Xe without changing my mindset. Once I got rid of the baggage I was carrying from the previous game, my D&D 4e game really took off. I was playing that game for all that it was, not holding onto ideas from another game that didn't work. I did the same for D&D 4e and D&D 5e. My D&D 4e game and D&D 5e game are nothing alike. And that's not because I want to play like older editions of D&D which I don't even remember. I actively work against doing this, and have no agenda for playing any game a certain way except as the rules say to do in order to assess it fairly, so your assertion holds no water with me.

as I have no issue with how I read them. the same is true for everyone...

but your advice to others when talking on the internet is that 5e RAW is written for it... and I don't believe it is. You have shown your work (in detail) and I understand how you have come to your conclusions, I just do not agree with them.
I absolutely do not say that D&D 5e is "written for" pixel-hunting. That's you hearing "reasonable specificity" and imagining the worst excesses of games from your past. You could choose not to do that.
 

do you understand that this statement is equally true for the people you disagree with?

You say you don't marry yourself to an idea, then why in all of these years you have not come to the conclusion that (especially in 5e) game rules can be read by different people and interpreted differently without one being wrong.
Not all readings of the rules are going to be correct, sorry. Again, I suggest thinking about why that matters to you.
 

Nothing is required by RAW since the rules serve the DM, not the other way around. But RAW sets forth a standard of reasonable specificity. It just seems that in your head, reasonable specificity is interpreted to be some kind of unreasonable nonsense. So maybe don't think about it that way?
no I interpret reasonable sepcificity to be "Can I use athletics to get past the hole?" "I intimidte the orc" and "I search the desk"
 

I have specifically set up processes to avoid these outcomes. I put those in place after I found my D&D 4e game was not very good, having come from D&D 3.Xe without changing my mindset. Once I got rid of the baggage I was carrying from the previous game, my D&D 4e game really took off. I was playing that game for all that it was, not holding onto ideas from another game that didn't work. I did the same for D&D 4e and D&D 5e. My D&D 4e game and D&D 5e game are nothing alike. And that's not because I want to play like older editions of D&D which I don't even remember. I actively work against doing this, and have no agenda for playing any game a certain way except as the rules say to do in order to assess it fairly, so your assertion holds no water with me.

Okay. please explain how you remove not just the memories of how you did things, but all of the ways your brain thinks and behaves based on those past experiences?
I absolutely do not say that D&D 5e is "written for" pixel-hunting. That's you hearing "reasonable specificity" and imagining the worst excesses of games from your past. You could choose not to do that.
Except you insist that just nameing a skill that someone wants to use isn't good enough even if you understand what they mean
 

no I interpret reasonable sepcificity to be "Can I use athletics to get past the hole?" "I intimidte the orc" and "I search the desk"
That is not supported by the rules in my view. Fine if you want to play that way, and I hope that you and your players have fun doing that, even if it sometimes requires you to go back and clarify what the character is doing (as you said may happen from time to time). By having reasonable specificity in my games, I don't have to do that, ever, and it's easy to see what success and failure look like, what ability check and skill or tool proficiency applies, and what the DC is. A lot of people say that DMing is hard. Not me and part of that is because my players aren't making it harder than it needs to be.
 

Not all readings of the rules are going to be correct, sorry.
no but when someone shows you why they read it that way, and you dismiss all evidence that counteracts your point and focus only on things that support it (some how missing that both are present) it shows some bias on your part.
Again, I suggest thinking about why that matters to you.
because you are spreading your 'one true reading' as fact. the same reason you don't like me posting my opinon, except I can see where you are coming from and you at least pretend you can not.
 

that depends. I am sure there are times that is the easies most direct way someone would say a thing... but it also will be true that when talking with your friends (and co D&D players) you will use context, and short hand, and slang/jargon. I see no reason for a formal rule (nor do I read about any phrasing rule/template in the PHB DMG or Sage Advice) on how to get the point across.
There is no “formal rule.” At session 0, I express to my players that I prefer they favor declarations of action over questions (e.g. “I look for another exit” is preferable to “can I see any other exits?”) and that in order to resolve an action I need to understand what their goal is and what their character is doing to try and accomplish it. When in doubt, “I try to X by Y” usually conveys all the information I need, but the phrasing doesn’t matter as long as I can understand those two things without having to make assumptions.
and I have never in 30 years seen someone HAVE to play 20 questions. NOT EVER. so please, tell me why you think that outcome would EVER be the default of a game run as I described. If anything I would expect MORE stop and rephrase moments in YOUR style of gaming.
Because I am clear about the expectations starting from session 0, it is very rare that I need to stop anyone to ask them to rephrase an action. Sometimes someone who is new to my table will need to be asked for clarification once or twice near the beginning of a campaign, but people tend to catch on quickly, because it’s really very simple to do. I imagine you’ve never had to stop and play 20 questions because you’re willing to make a lot more assumptions about an action than I am. When a player says “I intimidate the orc,” you don’t feel the need to ask any clarifying questions, because you’re fine with assuming the specifics of how the character tries to do that, and to what end. I am not, so I would need to ask the player, “what are you doing to try to intimidate him?” and “what do you want to accomplish by intimidating him?” So rather than set myself up to have to do that every time, I just tell the players in advance what information I’m looking for out of an action declaration and recommend an easy go-to phrasing they can use when they aren’t sure.
 

Okay. please explain how you remove not just the memories of how you did things, but all of the ways your brain thinks and behaves based on those past experiences?
Part of that is just getting old. I played AD&D 2e in high school in the 90s. I couldn't tell you a single thing about the rules of that game except THAC0. I suspect we weren't even playing by the rules very well anyway. I can only barely remember some things from D&D 3e since I haven't played that since D&D 4e game out. Like I can remember certain references to things, but I could not tell you the different types of actions PCs can take or the like. The memory is very low resolution now. If I were to play D&D 4e now, I'd have to have a refresher.

Further, I ruthlessly interrogate every single thing I am doing in the game when I learn a new game. Is this thing I'm doing supported by the rules of this game? Or is this something I'm doing because another game suggests I do that? If I find it's not supported, then it's got to go. Try running Dungeon World, for example, without getting rid or at least compartmentalizing how to run D&D 4e or 5e. The game will fight you every step of the way and absolutely suck. (I should note that trying to figure out Dungeon World while mostly playing D&D 4e back in 2011-2012 (?) also further refined how I try to unlearn games and learn new ones.)
 

no but when someone shows you why they read it that way, and you dismiss all evidence that counteracts your point and focus only on things that support it (some how missing that both are present) it shows some bias on your part.

because you are spreading your 'one true reading' as fact. the same reason you don't like me posting my opinon, except I can see where you are coming from and you at least pretend you can not.
I do have a bias and preference for a correct reading of the rules, yes.

I actually like you posting your opinion. It allows me to refine my own points and allows other people to see all the ways you distort things which indirectly makes you and, by association, your position look worse. In a debate, that helps offset all the ways I make myself and my position look worse. :sneaky:
 

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